Orc & Goblin tactics versus Dwarves

[TempestBlade]

Hello Fantasy Astro

I've recently started playing Warhammer Fantasy and thus far I am being mercilessly crushed. I've played Warhammer 40,000 for a loooooong time and am (modesty alert) competent with my Space Marines.

However with my Orcs & Gobbos, who I love to pieces, I was absolutely chewed out against my Dwarf opponent. Twice.

Does anyone have any advice for playing Dwarves with O&G at around the 1,000 point mark?

Aside from not rolling a 1 on an animosity check...

[Ossai]

Well, if you are able to describe his army in more detail we could help more

However, general advice: Organguns or Flame Cannons are to be avoided. Organguns are still autohit artillery dice (as far as I am aware) and will tear you to pieces. The Flame Cannon is pretty nasty too. Try to get some boar boys or something like that to take them out though beware of lone Dragon slayers, these are some of the best artillery defence you can get.

Another sneaky tactic I have employed as a dwarf player is to stick a bolt thrower out on its own down the flank, with a rune of penetrating and the master rune of immolation. Because it is out on its own it seems like a tempting target so you send someone in to deal with it. Then BOOM! 2D6 str 5 auto hits.

Thunderers are deadly up close (that +1 to hit is nasty) and Quarrelers are good over long range. If you are marching down a gun line make sure you have a lot of models. A massive (40+) unit of gobbos likes to soak up wounds. I forget the name but the ball and chain guys are pretty deadly as well. especialy against CC units as they can't hit them back.

Orc & Gobbo artillery is like everything else in their army. You need lots of it to do anything good.

Magic is always a good mainstay of the Orcs however with the dwarf +2 to dispell everything, as well as a good number of dispel dice it is not always worth it unless you have a good few casters and tbh you want some good CC orcs to deal with the hard as nails Dwarfs.

Dwarfs mainstay in CC is not getting killed. They have a high toughness and good armour rating so killing them is difficult. They are not that strong though (Longbeards and characters are str 4 and hammerers and miners have great weapons) so they can't always strike back too hard. Just be careful of their elites though. Hammerers will destroy you if they get a chance to hit back, and Ironbreakers will just downright refuse to die.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Mind you, I am not sure how relevant all this is as I have not played a game with the new ruleset, so I would wait for someone to confirm my advice first.

[The Warsmith]

Give him multiple things to worry about. Big blocks of savage/black orcs, giants and arachnaroks will all be serious threats, that he will divert his important shooting etc upon. Spider riders are great for outflanking those tough dwarf infantry or eating artillery since they can hide behind terrain and go straight through it in one turn. Also, a wyvern boss could serve as a distraction as well as menace his artillery and ranged units. Mangler squigs and pump wagaons can also mince armoured troops pretty well.

Another sneaky greenskin tactic is to have a big block of night goblin archers, and give them a goblin big boss with the spider banner. That makes all those arrows poisoned.

[TempestBlade]

Thanks for the responses guys, very helpful :)

My opponent had:

Two blocks of 20 Warriors (one set with great weapons, one with shields)
Two blocks of 10 Thunderers (both with Champions)
1 cannon
1 Thane (oathstone, extra attack, extra strength)

For 1,000 points.

I had:
40 Night Gobbo Spearmen
20 Night Gobbo Archers
20 Orc Boyz (shields)
22 Big Uns (shields)
10 Forest Spider Riders
1 Gobbo Shaman
1 Orc Big Boss (ogre blade, shield that negates first hit, with the Boyz)
1 Gobbo Standard Bearer (with the Big Uns)

My Forest Spider's flanked and rolled up his cannon and one unit of Thunderers, but that was just about all the good news.

My Big Uns fought his great weapon warriors (with the Thane) and got utterly destroyed, before the same thing happened to my Orc Boyz against the same great weapon squad.

My Night Goblin Spearmen and Forest Spiders fought the other Shield Warriors, but lost and fled.


Is my force composition missing some element or what tactical decisions am I missing?

[Ossai]

I would drop the shaman, he is not going to get many (if any) spells past the magic defence of the Dwarfs. Take someone that can do damage in CC instead. The spider riders are doing well, Cannon is the main priority with them, then tie up the Thunderers.

Best bet is to try and get that Thane to drop his oathstone. Once he has done that that unit cannot move for the rest of the game unless they flee. That will allow you to gang up on the rest of his army and leave them to rot and do nothing until you are in a good enough position to deal with them.

[TempestBlade]

Ah we did not play that he couldn't move afterward, though it wouldn't have made a ton of difference.

Actually the Shaman has been pretty reliable in getting his spells off. With the new magic system he has been one of the few effective units in the army (constantly frying Thunderers and making Night Gobbos armour piercing). I can appreciate your comment though and I will try a game without him.

To be honest I'm finding it really difficult to flank the Dwarves and it seems that even my Big Uns cannot go toe to toe with the Warriors, so I can't see how I can win a fair fight.

[Ossai]

Well, if he can't move then you can get into flanking position easier.

If magic is reasonably effective then ignore me xD

Best way to deal with Dwarfs in CC is to massivly outnumber them. Combine charges. Hit one euntil with both the Big uns and the orcs. Or Something more than the gobbos and the spiders.The more guys you can hit them with the more likely you are to kill someone.

Fanatics! Thats who I was thinking of in my first post.

[The Warsmith]

You hav eto try and goad the great weapon warriors into a position he doesn't want them in. If your spider riders annihilate all his shooting, then he will either have to reposition to deal with them or risk rear charges. With only two melee units, this will leave the one he doesn't move open to multiple charges due to the sheer bulk of numbers.

Also, 20 archers isn't going to be too effective. I'd be tempted to drop the spear ones for more orcs and archers. Maybe squeeze in chariots if you can, though fanatics are always a good idea.

[Aeth]

Give your boyz two hand weapons, a shield is going to do nothing for you against great weapons.