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Carrelio
10-12-2008, 05:04 PM
Hey guys, so I have just recently gotten back into warhammer fantasy and started the Dark Elves. It's been a long time since I played, so I have forgotten everything I ever knew... but from my year or two of Tau playing experiance I have managed to throw together a quick list. The list will be used mainly for fun games against friends no tournaments or anything (nt quite that good yet) and at the moment is made up of stuff that I have been given for free, found, or bought at very low prices from people who no longer want to use their models.

My aim was for a 1000 point list which I could assemble and paint by Christmas for the series of battles set up by my friends taking place in my basement.

Hero:
Lokhir Fellheart - 250 points

Core:

15 Dark Elf Warriors wth shields- 105 points
+ Banner of Murder - 25 points
16 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen - 160 points
10 Black Ark Corsairs - 100 points
+ Sea Serpent Standard - 25 points

Special:
5 Cold One Knights - 135
+ Banner of Cold Blood - 15 points

Rare:
War Hydra - 175 points

Total: 990 points

Notes:
-The banners are somewhat temporary, as I don't mind changing them around, I really just used them to fill space.
-I havn't actually got the War Hydra yet, but my friend who plays dark elves says it's a must have and will probably be giving me one for like $10

Any sujestions or comment are very welcome.

Carrelio
12-12-2008, 02:38 AM
I hate to bump my own thread, but I really do need some advice on the list, after another week of exams the fight will be on.

I might as well add that my main competition will be a high elf player, a chaos mortals player, a chaos daemons player, a orc player and a wood elf player may show up as well.

Some opinions on what banners to give which units, maybe a debate on full command of that spear unit or not... that sort of thing would be very helpful. Thanks.

Marticus
12-12-2008, 09:28 AM
hey dude.... sorry for the length of time before an examintation... it seems ok though i do have a few things i would do differantly, but its just my opinion so feel free to ignore it :) lokhirs good, but very expensive for such a small army u may be better off with a master and a sorceress lv2 works out cheaper in fact ;). spearman are best in 20s for that extra rank, very important thing. 16 crossbowman is more then i would use i would go for 10 either in a line formation or block. line i use more as 20 shots is a scary thing ;) definatley full command of the spearman, as without the banner and 1 less rank u losing combat by 2 agaisnt most units before u start. i can show u my list if u want a look, and i can honestly say ive been very very succesful woith it so far (touch wood it continues ;) )

lv2 sorceress
master with heavy armour hand weapon and shield and sea cloak

19 spearman full command.. master sits in them
10 crossbowman no command
1 repeater bolt thrower
5 cold one knights full command
20 withc elves full command

of course as the points are the same u could swap 20 corsairs with full command for the withc elves.. your choice my man. hope this has been some use :)

Carrelio
12-12-2008, 07:01 PM
Thanks Marticus, that was alot of help! I think I will swap out the witch elves with corsairs, as I simply don't have any witch elves.

Marticus
13-12-2008, 09:12 AM
good thinking dude :) the corsiars being same price and good too ;)

Carrelio
14-12-2008, 03:46 AM
Hey Marticus?
If I were to give my master the 25 point upgrade to standard bearer, give him the 75 point hydra banner, and stick him in the cold ones regiment... would that be a recommended move?
I'd have to give up the sorceress, but I'd gain about 10 attacks to the unit... which would essentially make them the equivalent of bringing an actual bowling ball to a match and dropping it on people, whoever it crushes dies.
Now this would put my master's point values up to around 200... so he's pretty heavy... but there are alot of benefits too.

Rabidnid
14-12-2008, 05:32 AM
"Hero:
Lokhir Fellheart - 250 points"

He isn't that good so I would drop him for a couple normal characters.

Core:

"15 Dark Elf Warriors wth shields- 105 points
+ Banner of Murder - 25 points"

Needs a standard bearer to take a banner.

"16 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen - 160 points"

Gve these guys shields and at least a muso, the sorc can sit in here if you take one.

"10 Black Ark Corsairs - 100 points
+ Sea Serpent Standard - 25 points"

Again needs a standard bearer to take the banner


"Special:
5 Cold One Knights - 135
+ Banner of Cold Blood - 15 points"

Again needs a standard bearer to take the banner

"Rare:
War Hydra - 175 points"

fine


"If I were to give my master the 25 point upgrade to standard bearer, give him the 75 point hydra banner, and stick him in the cold ones regiment... would that be a recommended move?"


Can't do that, as your BSB cannot be the army commander. Hydra banner is fine but it will make the unit a target, and you will suffer if your opponentt knows about the banner. A caldron is about the same points (200) and is much more flexible.

Carrelio
14-12-2008, 07:20 PM
Alright, so it's painfully obvious that my list needed improvement, so here is a completely new one!

Hero:
Master
-cold one mount
-ring of hotek
-armour of darkness
125 points

Core:
20 Dark Elf Spearmen
-full command
155 points

16 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen
160 points

16 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen
160 points

20 Black Ark Corsairs
-full command
-sea serpent standard
250 points

Special:
5 Cold One Knights
135 points

Total: 1010


Tactica:
I intend to place the Master on a cold one, within the cold one knights' unit, this will make them a bit more hard hitting which is a good thing as they are my sledge hammer unit. In addition, his ring of hotek will essentially nullify magic in the area around him, which will keep his unit safe (and possibly a good mage killing unit)
The spearmen will be used to hold the corsairs in check as they make their way towards the enemy, this way the corsairs, who have frenzy thanks to their banner wont be lured off by distractions.
The 32 crossbowmen will provide fire support to the rest of the army, thining down ranks and all that jazz.

Changes:
I'm debating removing one of the 2 groups of crossbowmen (and downgrading the items on my Master) to give myself a hydra... it looks like a pretty solid unit to have around.

dsjtheman5452
15-12-2008, 01:11 AM
i actually do not like it that much. the crossbowmen are overrated imho. Yeah they get to fire twice, but its at a -1 to hit for the multiple shots rule and still are only strength 3. You have a total of 320 points of crossbowmen out there. If I were you I would take 2 bolt throwers instead. They can shoot volleys at strength 4 and single bolts (d3 wounds) at strength 6 with no armour save allowed. They are much more valuable and can offer a lot more strategic options with the volley and single shot.

You will still have 120 points left to spare which you could get some magic in there with Sorceress. If you could figure out a way to shave some points somewhere you could make her a lvl. 2 or just give her a dispel scroll just in case you face a magic happy enemy.

Carrelio
15-12-2008, 03:04 AM
Man... this is so much harder than picking troops for my Tau...

Rabidnid
15-12-2008, 08:13 PM
Alright, so it's painfully obvious that my list needed improvement, so here is a completely new one!

Hero:
Master
-cold one mount
-ring of hotek
-armour of darkness
125 points

Core:
20 Dark Elf Spearmen
-full command
155 points

16 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen
160 points

16 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen
160 points

20 Black Ark Corsairs
-full command
-sea serpent standard
250 points

Special:
5 Cold One Knights
135 points

Total: 1010


Tactica:
I intend to place the Master on a cold one, within the cold one knights' unit, this will make them a bit more hard hitting which is a good thing as they are my sledge hammer unit. In addition, his ring of hotek will essentially nullify magic in the area around him, which will keep his unit safe (and possibly a good mage killing unit)
The spearmen will be used to hold the corsairs in check as they make their way towards the enemy, this way the corsairs, who have frenzy thanks to their banner wont be lured off by distractions.
The 32 crossbowmen will provide fire support to the rest of the army, thining down ranks and all that jazz.

Changes:
I'm debating removing one of the 2 groups of crossbowmen (and downgrading the items on my Master) to give myself a hydra... it looks like a pretty solid unit to have around.


The crossbows are much more effective with shields. I tend to run one block of 20 with full command as a replacement for a spear block and 2x 10 with just shields and musos for flank protection. The block of 20 is 2x10 and has the sorc in it if there is one. It cxan also form up 5x4 and provide SCR if need be. If your oppoent brings a giant the 80 shots hitting on 4+ will, on average rolls, kill it in one turn. You could get that for less ponts than your current spears and RXB. Bolt throwers are longer ranged but never kill enought to warrent their inclusion in my armies, I have in fact sold mine.

Basically at 24 inches you get 6 shots of which 5 hit and 3.3 wound versus T-3. 10 RXB at the same range have 20 shots hit 6.6 times and wound 3.3 times. The Bolt thrower has 1 better AP but can't fight or move-and-shoot. You don't have to defend your shielded RXB and they can flank charge as well. It makes them much more effective as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not greatly excited by the frenzyied corsairs, they lack the poison weapons of the witches so they are just not effective enough to conmpensate for the disadvantage of frenzy. Give them the warbanner if you want to give them a magic standard, they can then do SCR as well and you could thin out the larger block of RXB tp 10 or do away with it entirely and sxpend the points on something else.

You really need a couple units of shades, dark riders or harpies. You currently have a lot of slow melee power, but any decent melee army with beat you. The strength of Druchii is their mobility, shooting and the ability to inflict a lot of wounds.

My lists have a lot of shooting, magic and hard hitting flankers with a screen of harpies.

leeoaks
18-12-2008, 08:21 PM
i wouldnt take tw bolt throwers they are easy VP for your opponent i have to say i dont rate the crossbows either what models do you have to play with?

Carrelio
18-12-2008, 10:35 PM
My selction is...
25 spearmen
10 cold one nights
32 crossbowmen
30 corsairs
1 Hydra

And my Hq would either be:
Master
Lokhir Fellheart

Rabidnid
19-12-2008, 10:47 AM
In that case 25 spears with FC and warbanner, 2x10 RXB, and 2x5 CoK

The remaining points will get you a master and another unit or two of Corsairs.

Carrelio
19-12-2008, 04:13 PM
Should the speatmen or xbows have sheilds?

Marticus
19-12-2008, 04:14 PM
spearman most definatly dude!

Carrelio
19-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Alright, and that would leave room for around 15 corsairs and a master to join one of the coldone units.

dsjtheman5452
19-12-2008, 08:32 PM
man honestly i liked your very first list. the which elves were not a bad idea, but lokhir is best in corsairs. i like the hydra instead of bolt thrower. in a 1000 point game i think what you had in your first list would work well. the apponent is not going to have too many amazing units so corsairs with lokhir will do well, especially if your able to get the double victory points for running down a breaking enemy. i would take 23 of them though. so with lokhir in the unit you will have 24models for a 6wide/4deep unit. Two terror causing units will be very nice. if i were you i would try it out. i can't remember if you took command groups in your crossbowmen. i would not pay the points for any command in them. i would even say to cross them out completely and get more spearmen since they cost only 6 points and the more numbers you can get on a smaller point game will be nice. Id take just one line of crossbowmen if your set on taking them and fill out your spearmen unit. fighting in two ranks is nice.

i know people like crossbowmen, but i really find them overrated. two shots per model is nice but at the -1 to hit for multiple shots, it sometimes doesnt matter. strength 3 sucks badly imo. sure corsairs and spearmen are only strength 3 but better to hit chance with them, and hatred really helps that out even more. I think if they lowered the cost of crossbowmen to that of spearmen (since its a warrior but just a different weapon) it would be more worth it.

Carrelio
19-12-2008, 10:39 PM
Well, I have a tournament with my friends coming up... so I'll see what works, I think I'll try a few options and find out what I like best.

Rabidnid
20-12-2008, 12:50 AM
i know people like crossbowmen, but i really find them overrated. two shots per model is nice but at the -1 to hit for multiple shots, it sometimes doesnt matter. strength 3 sucks badly imo. sure corsairs and spearmen are only strength 3 but better to hit chance with them, and hatred really helps that out even more. I think if they lowered the cost of crossbowmen to that of spearmen (since its a warrior but just a different weapon) it would be more worth it.


In combat 11 point shielded crossbows have WS-4, 1 attack and a 4+ save, while the corsairs have 2 attacks and a 5+ save; the corsairers are better, but not by much. Spears on the other hand can do exactly the same thing for 7 points, so really, there is no point to corsairs at all, but they are cute models and people like pirates so they get run anyway.

RXB can shoot as well, which is why I take them over spears. They can sit back and deal with light horse, skirmishers and incautious loose characters without having to move, and chop up large targets nicely because of the +1 to hit and all ranks being able to see it. All ranks can also see a unit on a hill so you can attrit units that depend on the uphill bonus orthat is just turtled in a corner.

Without any mobile skirmishers, the list needs to be able to cover the ground with fire instead, or else the list will be rolled up by anybody who gets around its flank.

Carrelio
20-12-2008, 02:43 AM
Corsairs are pretty good against ranged stuff though, the sea dragon cloak has a decent save.
And where else are you going to put Lokhir Fellheart? He just doesn't fit in with anyone else.

Rabidnid
20-12-2008, 05:06 AM
I just use him as a reaver or master. I have corsairs, but they just aren't that great.

Carrelio
21-12-2008, 03:50 AM
Well, just thought I'd tell you all the good news...

I just finished painting my last dark elf! So my army is fully assembled, painted, based, and all around ready to go!

Just in time for the Tournament against my friends this coming Tuesday! I must say the final push to get the last 16 crossbows, and 5 knights was a bit rough, but I'm glad to be ready!