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DavicusPrime
10-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Ladies and Gents,

I've been working on recreating the olf space hulk game using the revised kill team rules GW used to have on their website... Now only available on the Aussie site (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/spacehulk/default.htm) but for how long no one knows.

While the terrain aspect is pretty neat and I've begun work on making a simple map system, I'm looking for folks who actually played the old SH game to help me tweak the KT rules to better fit it.

So far I've attempted to sort out the rules as stated on the GW site playing the first mission. The main issue so far is that the marines have an increadablly hard time of things.

Using Killteam as the core rules allows the stealers a huge speed advantage... Move, fleet, assault in close confined maps like this is crazy. My two test games left me thinking that maybe the KT rules leave the balance tilted in favor of the stealers.

The question I have for y'all is: was the original game heavily tilted toward the stealers or was it more even?

-DavicusPrime

kharn the betrayer
10-11-2008, 07:19 PM
The original game if played properly was very much in favour of the stealers.

many is the time the marines got duffed when we play it, just ask Fedicus he still has the stealer genes to prove it. The older game was worse, with the marines turn being timed.

DavicusPrime
10-11-2008, 08:38 PM
In that case, I guess the rules aren't as far off as I had thought.

I am hoping some other folks have tried the advanced rules in the Return to Space Hulk Article (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/spacehulk/default.htm)?

I tried the rules out with the first mission from the old game... Dude. The marines got spanked both times I tried the game. Even with the modified rules allowing bolters to shoot twice (once in movement and once in shooting phase) the stealers were all over the termies. The ability for the hvy flamer to make a corridor impassable for one turn was a godsend though.

The main issue is that the stealers are definatly faster than the old SH rules allowed... 6" + D6" + 6" if they are in range to assault. This translates into a potential for moving the equivelent of 12 "squares" worth in one turn which is twice as fast as the old game allowed.

On the flip side, the shooting and close combat abilities of the termies are better than they were in the old game. Facing doesn't hurt you like it used to. And if you use overwatch wisely, all that extra movement could be a negative for the stealers.

Unit coherency, even though loosened up in the KT rules makes close combat pretty ugly. Before you only ever fought one critter at a time. Now you can face 3 or 4 in a combat. The termies can gang up too if they pack themselves in, but it's much more of a liability for the marines than for the stealers.

Over all, I like the rules but I'd like to see more folks play testing them.

I'm going to have to go grab some AoBR termies off ebay and talk my nid playing friend into loaning me some of his stealers. Using empty 40mm bases and plague marines for stealers just doesn't have the same feel. http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

-DavicusPrime

Fedicus
11-11-2008, 02:01 PM
When we play, the overwatch counters have now become known as tombstones, due to the fact that is where the Terminator usually dies in a frenzy of talons.

Indra
12-11-2008, 07:09 AM
Space Hulk. A game where you truly had to hedge your bets as the Space Marines. It was always tough, but I guess that was the nature of the game.

I haven't really got any suggestions for you except to say that games were winnable as space marines in the last edition of the rules although it was challenging.

Indra

DavicusPrime
12-11-2008, 05:44 PM
Seems I need to do more play testing. The last partial test I played seemed to work out a bit better for the marines. Some based on different tactics, some by luck with the dice.

Some other observations that seem to jive with the old rules:

-Termies have trouble defending tight corners/intersections. The stealers are able to close into charge range unscathed and can't be kept out of combat except by lucky termies on overwatch.

-Holding rooms is fairly easy as multiple termies can cover the same hallway.

Things that are definatly different by using 5th ed as the basis of the rules:

-Unit coherency and it's effects on shooting/wound allocation and close combat make most of the combat portions of the game much more decisive. By the SH-KT rules stealers are considered in coherency if they are inside 4" of each other. With some bad cover saves 2-3 terminators could wipe out a full brute squad and have wounds bleed over into a brute squad behind that's inside 4". And then stealers can assault a terminator and potentially kill him and any termies that are in unit coherency with him.

-The dynamic movement aspect rather than using squares of movement allows for many more stealers to pile into combat and allows for more freedom to spread out in adventageous ways. Depending on how you build your terrain could free up or restrict movement accordingly. I'm using 1 9/16" squares for the floor tiles and if I ever get around to building walls, I intend to make the total playable width of the corridors be about 2". So the floor tiles are tied to the footprint of a 40mm base but I'm shooting for the corridors being wide enough for 2x 25mm bases side by side. So a terminator can still block a corridor, but twice as many stealers can hit him in assault. Which seems fair since the typical termies can fire twice as often on it's turn and can go on overwatch. And if you follow the 5th ed concept that members of the same unit don't block LOS (with my added caveat of them needing to be in coherency) they can combine fire more effectivly too.

Thanks everyone for helping me get the feel closer to the old game.

Once I get more playtesting done I'll report out what works and what doesn't.

-DavicusPrime

LAZtheinfamous
17-11-2008, 12:27 AM
Really? I haven't heard that! Is it going to be a regular store release or is it going to be something I have to get at a GW retailer?

DavicusPrime
18-11-2008, 04:36 PM
It's very old news, but i assume you know they are rereleasing Space Hulk....don't think anyone mentioned it on here

Actually that would be very new news to me. From the Return to Space Hulk article GW had online, they specifically stated that spacehulk was not going to be rereleased.

The whole article was about simulating the feel of that game through the kill team rules from 4th Ed.

My experiment is based on the rules they give in that article and 5th Ed. rules where appropriate.

If you can provide a source for your rumor I'd love to check it out.

-DavicusPrime