In the end, who wins?

[Potion]

Hello Lords and Ladies of Astronomican!

I was thinking today, if the the war in the 40K Universe were to come to an end, who would be the last army standing, and why? I'm saying far down the line, which army would have the best chance of success and ultimate survival? Who would be doomed to failure? I know it's a really geeky question but I thought I would ask your opinion :).

Thanks much!
Potion

[Gaius Julius]

Okay, it's an obvious answer but I have to say it anyway. The Imperium would be crushed, as it is already spread too thinly across the Galaxy. The two largest forces (Tyranids and Orks) would dominate and survive, while the second largest (necrons) would also survive in some form. There are several reasons for this. 'Nids and orks are the most adaptable, largest, and most unstoppable of all forces in 40k. The Necrons are quite similar, although they are not as numerous. The Eldar and Dark Eldar are too few to make an impact, and Chaos is quite limited in its reach.

cheers

GJ

[The Vulture]

Chaos is Eternal so it would still be around at the end. Nids and Orks...well...theres just too many of them...and the Necrons could be stopped....There is the Blackstone fortresses after all..and the rest are dying out already or are too small to hold their own...The Tau Empire could be easily destroyed by a concentration of tyranids or Orks (or both). The Imperium is dying, the Eldar (Dark or otherwise) are pretty much dead as it is, and whats left will eventually get destroyed. So my vote would be cast in Chaos just because they are just about impossible to kill (if not) or tyranids or orks...

Necrons have a bane, and I already mentioned the Blackstone fortresses (which can kill C'tan if you odnt know what it is) so they would get killed eventually.

[Not a Cat]

My money is on Orks and Chaos.
Chaos being eternal and Orks, well like the saying goes; Orks is neva beatin' in ba'ul. Besides, it wouldn't be the same without them. ._.

[Wraithlord]

Eldar could survive. Just cut themselves off and slowly make more craft worlds and live in deep space in total isolation. (Now that I say it, some craftworlds probably are already

[Arkaedin]

Orks. Their population will never stop or slow down, it will always increase. Everything will eventually be overwhelmed (even Chaos guys. Maybe not Chaos as in the raw emotion in the warp, but Chaos as in the gods will be overwhelmed by Gork and Mork once the orks really started ownin' stuff up :cool: )

EDIT- first two to go are the Imperium and Eldar- Imperium's reason stated by GJ earlier in the thread and Eldar because they are close to extinction already, not enough force to overcome Orks or Nids.

[Carrelio]

I think in the end it would come down to Necrons and Daemons, both are immortal so they'd just wage war on eachother forever (until the necrons sealed the warp... then there would be a couple million years of break followed by an erruption from new spots that would look like the eye of terror only 1 million years in the future)

[and then there was me....]

im gonna be an optimost humanity might exist in some form in the universe
however i think the orks wouuld surive along with the tyranids while all the other races would wither and die

[Not a Cat]

I do really love my old Tau, but they have as much hope as a goldfish has in a maelstrom made of sharks and axes.

[Commander Xillian]

In the long run? Tau have the best chance, should they survive, to establish a fair and likable government. The Imperium will never die, because face it. Beast men are hard core, Space marines are harder, and a Titan is so hard core, it would eventually be exhumed. The Imperium has had to much of an impact to simple fade.

ORKS! They will only be destroyed when they start to slowly run out of things to fight, and start fighting each other. An even with sporing taken into place, orks are just too good for their own good! They would, as with the Imperium, rip their support structure out from underneath them. Plus, an orks 'ead anit nearly as good as a Space marines.

Eldar, dark or other wise? They are gone. Unless they moved to another Galaxy altogether, which would honestly be their best bet.

Tyranids. They would eventually starve. But not before killing every *** in the Galaxy!

Necrons. They did it before, they can do it again, right? That is what my gameboy running out of battery power taught me any way... Plus, it would only be a total genocide if the dragon got free of his prison on mars.

That's my take any who.

[Arctophylax Faren]

The Void Dragon is on Mars? I hadn't heard about that... Well blow me =O
Magi! What have you done?!

[Guzzlrr]

Nids or orks - ia say deamons but they really dont exist in a mortal sence, orks, respawning from a single spore would e a pain to eradicate, but I THINK nids ARE a Finite resource

woot woot 500 posts

[Drackonis]

Necrons get my vote.

They have a massive amount of soldiers, and the most advanced technology around.

They're the perfect army, they dont sleep, eat, disobay orders, etc. They're practically indestructible (even when their force is destroyed the remains get teleported back for repairs).

They'll destroy the humans easily (Void Dragon wakes up, lots of necron tombs Imperial space).

Orks will slowly be ground down as they throw themselves against a foe they cannot defeat.

Eldar dont have the resources anymore.

Tau dont have the numbers or the knowledge.

Chaos is stuck in the Warp mainly, and the Necrons will find a way to shut the Eye of Terror. And it wont open again because the Warp will become calm when the Necrons have destroyed all beings with physcic abilities.

Tyranids arent interested in the Necrons because Necrons arent biomatter and cant be consumed, once the galaxy is cleansed of life by both the Necrons and the Tyranids the Tyranids will move along to another galaxy, and the Necrons will go back to their tombs and wait for life to fill the galaxy once more.

The might of the Old Ones couldnt stand against them, and while the current races may have been created to combat them they've grown scarce or corrupted from their purpose and cannot hope to succeed.

Their number is legion, their name is death.

They will wipe the floor with anyone and anything until life is almost gone, then disappear until life comes back. And repeat the process.

[Guzzlrr]

Necrons get my vote.

They're the perfect army, they dont sleep ...

well sleep is the one thing they excell at lol (Only kidding) lol

[Drackonis]

well sleep is the one thing they excell at lol (Only kidding) lol

Haha, but only once they've destroyed almost every lifeform in the galaxy!

A good rest after a hard days work.

[TempestBlade]

Its a depressing thought that the two most likely survivors, Tyranids and Necrons, are the two who survival would probably mean the least too. I mean neither one of them is going to even cheer when they kill the last creature in the galaxy. The Necrons would just go into standby mode (not caring how bad that is for the electricity bill!) and the Nids would just hear their stomachs growl....

To be honest, aside from Tau and Imperial Guard, do you think that any other race would look forward to a Galaxy free of foes?

Space Marines / Daemon Hunters: What the hell are they going to do in a Galaxy with no enemies? They'd be a little bit of overkill for police (and lets go even further and presume that with Chaos somehow extinguished from the galaxy, there is no crime, so not even police work!)

Chaos Space Marines: Same deal as Space Marines, if they conquered the galaxy wouldn't the galaxy just become a permenant daemon place, making anyone who was unfortunate enough to be mortal just some daemon's plaything?

Orks: They live to fight. I mean sure there's always going to be other Orks to fight, but there must be a reason they fight other races, it's more fun! I mean what is a more horrific mental image than a bored ork?!

Dark Eldar: God forbid they actually had to do some manual labour themselves!

Eldar: Well we know what happened last time the Eldar were left to a galaxy by themselves...

Not to mention the fact that if this happened, exactly how boring would our beloved board game be? :D

[NoPoet]

Well according to old fluff the Nids have possibly exterminated the Andromeda galaxy. Doesn't leave much hope for us. In the Nid codex it states the Imperium might have a chance if every single able-bodied person joined the Guard. The C'Tan nearly slaughtered everything in our galaxy but now there are only four of them left. Life in the Milky Way survived not only this, but the Enslavers at the same time, so I wouldn't put money on any major race being entirely destroyed.

It used to be that Chaos would eventually win. How Chaos is supposed to triumph when the Nids assimilate us all is not certain.

[VolatilSpam]

I love Space Marines, but really, my money is on ORKS 'cuz orks is the 'ardest boyz in da galaxy!

And orks will neva get bored so long as dey's more orks ta foight!

WAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH !!!!

[Trygon]

I'd imagine everything would be obliterated sans Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Chaos Demons. Orks and Tyranids would eventually destroy each other as time passes, but since Necrons and Demons are both immortal they would be fighting till the end of time and past that. The C'tan and Chaos Gods would not be able to fight one on one simply because C'tan cannot enter the warp and Chaos Gods cannot leave the warp.

[Uncle Nurgle]

Well Chaos can always exist because Orks can't really attack them in the eye of terror cause their little crap ships would be ripped apart into dust before they could really get anywhere. And their gods can always resurrect the dead champions. And Nurgle will win it all because he is awesome end of story....anyway.:cool:

Nids are a good bet to win because of previously stated points with their ability to never really run outta resources.

Orks cause they are space mushrooms and will never run outta things to fight so its not like they are going anywhere soon.

I mean if you think about it hard enough it won't end obviously cause the cash cow we call games workshop won't let it but in Fluff land I would defiantly put my money on the Stunties cause no one knows where they are hiding or Nids.

[The Vulture]

Necrons get my vote.

They have a massive amount of soldiers, and the most advanced technology around.

They're the perfect army, they dont sleep, eat, disobay orders, etc. They're practically indestructible (even when their force is destroyed the remains get teleported back for repairs).

They'll destroy the humans easily (Void Dragon wakes up, lots of necron tombs Imperial space).



But you forget about the Blackstone Fortresses...like most people do. Which are capable of killing C'tan and devastating Necron fleets.


Chaos has one or two in their possession I recall.

[Drackonis]

But you forget about the Blackstone Fortresses...like most people do. Which are capable of killing C'tan and devastating Necron fleets.


Chaos has one or two in their possession I recall.

Ah! But hardly anyone knows what their for or how to use them, which makes them much less of a threat.

But, I know something else people are forgetting. When all the races with a pyschic link and destroyed by either the Necrons or the Tyranids (or even the Tau, somehow) then the Warp will return to its original state of calm (after a period of time of course). Deamons and the Chaos Gods are created by beings with psychic abiltity, take them away and you take away their food source so they all die out.

Chaos is only immortal for as long as there's races with a link to the warp, and the whole purpose of the Necrons and Tyranids is to destroy everything, which includes those races.

[LoganVivisected]

Me.

You already have proof.

[The Commodore]

The Void Dragon is on Mars? I hadn't heard about that... Well blow me =O
Magi! What have you done?!

I think thats the best offer i've had all day....

Really though, the only civilisation to come out on top, would be the Imperium. Honestly there is just too many of us. Once the tryannid situation is sorted out, we could easily wipe out the Tau. The Orks would be nigh on impossible to erradicate, but could be easily contained. Chaos would consume itself and the Eldar would just slowly fade away.

[Drackonis]

Ah, but how does the Imperium get rid of the tyranids? And getting rid of the Necrons would be even more difficult.

Maybe if they somehow rediscover all thier old technology and move out of the backwards, stagnant civilisation they have become they'd stand a chance. And the only way that could happen is if the Emperor finally gets his arse off the Golden Throne and does some work!

[The Commodore]

Ah, but how does the Imperium get rid of the tyranids? And getting rid of the Necrons would be even more difficult.

Maybe if they somehow rediscover all thier old technology and move out of the backwards, stagnant civilisation they have become they'd stand a chance. And the only way that could happen is if the Emperor finally gets his arse off the Golden Throne and does some work!


A nice big EM pulse should do the trick for the necrons and Exterminatus viral bombs would work wonders for the nids.

[Not a Cat]

Me.

You already have proof.

Someone told you I was getting you Lightning Claws for your birthday didnt they? HMMM?! *shakes power fist in rage*

[Drackonis]

A nice big EM pulse should do the trick for the necrons and Exterminatus viral bombs would work wonders for the nids.

Im pretty sure Necrons are immune to EM pulses, and there's far too many Tyranids for viral bombing to work (besides, that needs them to be on a planet, and destroys the planet in the process. Viral bombing every planet they go to means the Imperium would destroy itself).

Gotta remember, only a few Necrons have awoken, there's countless billions/trillions scattered through the galaxy. And the Imperium has only felt the touch of reletively small expeditionary Tyranid fleets, when their full armada arrives everyone dies (unless all the Necrons wake up first, then by the time they arrive everyone's already dead).

[Trygon]

The Imperium, Tau, Eldar, etc are all doomed from the start for being squishy, weak and easy to kill. Also emotions tend to be their off setter.

[Arctophylax Faren]

Im pretty sure Necrons are immune to EM pulses

.

They're not, the Tau have experienced some success with weapons intended to disable the enemy's vehicles that work equally devastatingly against Necron forces.

[Trygon]

Also as for Chaos Gods and Demons needing emotions to keep alive, I am sure that they must have their own emotions and also war each other anyway as well as feel and share experiences, etc. Thus this makes them self sustaining.

[Arctophylax Faren]

No, they're really not self sustaining. If you read enough fiction, you'll find there are many, many lesser Chaos Gods that are born and die from simply receiving or not receiving mortal attention.

[Drackonis]

Also as for Chaos Gods and Demons needing emotions to keep alive, I am sure that they must have their own emotions and also war each other anyway as well as feel and share experiences, etc. Thus this makes them self sustaining.

If you read up on the Chaos background it says quite clearly that they are representations of strong emotions and feelings felt by races with physcic abilities. They're created by those races and maintained by them, their appearence is based on the dominant subconcious racial image, as is their behaviour.

Everything they have is taken from those races with a warp link, they arent the demons from other fictional universes (making up a normal, sentient, race in their own way), they're deamons, created by sentient being's emotional echoes and maintained by them.

Sure, they fight amongst themselves as well as they can, but thats merely a consequence of the conflict of emotions felt by races with warp abilities.

When it comes to deamons you have to remember they are personifications of the emotions and feelings of races with physic powers. When those races have been destroyed the warp will be chaotic for awhile, but the echoes of emotion will fade and with them the warp entities. The warp will return to its original calm state.

@ Faren, im a bit of a 40k lore fan, so im always eager to learn more. Where does it mention the EMPs effectiveness against Necrons?

[Arctophylax Faren]

For one, in the new Apocalypse Reload, the Tau have a weapon called Icefire I think it is? Is designed to destroy vehicles and other weaponry that relies on electronics, and has a particularly damaging effect on Necrons.
While it's not technically an EMP, it is still a weapon designed to only affect electronics and similar systems.

[Not a Cat]

For one, in the new Apocalypse Reload, the Tau have a weapon called Icefire I think it is? Is designed to destroy vehicles and other weaponry that relies on electronics, and has a particularly damaging effect on Necrons.
While it's not technically an EMP, it is still a weapon designed to only affect electronics and similar systems.

Oh its like that cannon they have on their moon in Soulstorm!
It's called something else I think, can't remember. =/

[Arctophylax Faren]

You mean the Ark'A Cannon? that's a Soulstorm thing, and affects living things! The total opposite hehe!

[Not a Cat]

You mean the Ark'A Cannon? that's a Soulstorm thing, and affects living things! The total opposite hehe!

Arrrgggh you're right! xD
I was close though.

[Serpent Tyrant]

Somewhere on this site I had made a fairly in depth description of what I thought would happen in the end. Basically it broiled down to Necron's winning by default as the Tyranids had eaten everything else and moved on. If I can find it I may end up posting it. Well I found it so without further ado here is my little rant on this topic.

-Necrons due to the fact that not all of them are awake yet and there tech is incredibly advanced along with regen capabilities.

-Tyranids due to the fact that like the corns we don\'t know how many of them there are. They can evolve quickly and adapt over time to most weapons thrown againts them.

-Orks if they have nothing left to fight but Necrons, Tyranids, or themselves then if might be more plausible for them to end up joining forces so will be able to give both the Necrons and Tyranids a run for there money.

Here is what I see happening at the end of time for the 40K universe. Note that this is based largely on fluff not game mechanics.

-Chaos will be gone mainly because of either A. the immense Tyrannic psychic presence or B. the Necrons finding some way to blot out the warp which they are already trying to do.

-Humans will be gone since fluff wise they are already having major difficulty dealing with Necron and Tyranid forces if both of those start attacking in masse mankind will be unable to properly mount a good defense.

-Eldar and Dark Eldar as stated before are screwed. They know and it is all over in there fluff. They are dying in the game already and it is only a matter of time before they are completely gone.

-Tau will most likely be gone as even though they can develop tech quickly, but based on maps they seem to be in the direct path of the Tyranids. Since there warp travel is already so slow they will be unable to even reach there colonies under attack by the nids since they will be unable to warp travel at all.

Now for the big three.

-I see the orks lasting for quite some time. As the forces of the nids and crons go higher and become more powerful I belive more and more orks will be drawn to fighting them rather then fighting each other. However even though they have mass numbers they will be up against other armies that also have incredibly large numbers and since there tech does not seem to be developing any they may end up being overpowered by Necron tech and out evolved by Tyrannic creatures.

-Now the Necrons are quite powerful I will admit. There ships are the fastest and strongest currently known. Not all of there forces are currently awake and who knows what other kinds of tech they have. Plus when it finally comes down to the final battle I would not be surprised to see all 4 C\'tan running about and far stronger than they are now. One thing people keep bringing up is the Necrons regen saying that they cannot be killed. This however is not true. Yes they can regen on the field of battle bringing back there dead but if they get too damaged they have to beam back to a tomb world to get fully repaired and then head back out to battle. Also note that the Necrons will be unable to regenerate indefinately. Most likely the nanobots that make up there bodies somehow grow like living cells and thusly need energy and minerals in order to do so. Most likely the Necrons have machines that are harvesting minerals from there planets to allow Necron forces to regen and eventually those recources will run out. As for them cuttin off Tyrannic communication with the pylons it is unknown how long it will take in order to build sufficient pylons in order to completly cut off the warp in the galaxy while under attack from the nids so most likely that plan will not succeed. Lastly the Necrons are not trying to exterminate all life but to harvest it for there masters since the Necrons follow the C\'tan\'s orders and are incapable of disobeying them. Most likely if all of the other races start dying they will attempt to make a kind of \"farms\" where they will raise what they can get to feed there masters while equipping them with pylons to hide them from the nids.

-Finally we come to the Tyranids. Now when the main Tyrannic force arrives they will most likely reabsorb the fleets already here learning and growing stronger from the DNA that they have collected. When the Orks finally die the Tyranids will most likely have so much Ork DNA That they will be able to build creatures that make even the strongest ork in exsistence look like a grot. Now when it comes to the Necron tech the nids will most likely, given enough time, figure something out. Either much better carapace to increase the time it takes for a flayer to get through it all or give more creatures a psychic barrier which would help in defense. Also I would say that the Tyranids can eat the Necrons. If you look at our biology we have metal in our blood even though it may not be much. Even if the they cannot eat much metal it would not surprise me if they could eat at least some. Even though they cannot attack all of the Necron tomb worlds some of the tomb worlds do in fact have life on them and Tyranids will wipe out all resistance on a planet before finally eating everything so Necrons will indeed lose some of the there tombs because of this. When all of the planets are void of life the nids will most likely just move on fighting crons on the way out since they will have no reason to stay anyway. Which does bring me to another point. When the planets with life begin to get low I still believe that the nids will have stuff to eat. I mean think about it I would not be surprised if the Tyranids have some form of \"farm\" that they can grow animals and plants in order to survive when other food sources get low. I mean they were able to cross the distance between galaxies. Even if they were using warp travel and in hibernation they would need at least some kind of food source in order to sustain themselves. Lastly if the nids ever figured out a way to eat a C\'tan than it would present a lot of problems for the cron\'s, other C\'tan, and any other race the nids happen to come across.

So in the end what I see happening is whatever is left of the Tyranid race leaving our galaxy to find another food source while occasionaly fighting Necrons on the way out. The Tyranids would leave behind them a pretty much lifeless galaxy that whatever is left of the Necrons will be able to do whatever they want with. If the Necrons did indeed \"save\" some life they will most likely once again return to hibernation and let it regrow. However it will most likely never return to a state as abundant as it was so the C\'tan will remain fairly weak since they will have to rely on eating stars while occasionaly having a snack on whatever sentient race is left. So with the Necrons only win by default since they are the only super power left in the galaxy and any race left will be unable to expand and develop enough to pose a threat to them.

[The Commodore]

They're not, the Tau have experienced some success with weapons intended to disable the enemy's vehicles that work equally devastatingly against Necron forces.

Well there you go.

[Not a Cat]

Most likely if all of the other races start dying they will attempt to make a kind of 'farms' where they will raise what they can get to feed there masters while equipping them with pylons to hide them from the nids.

Just like them darn Sentinels.
Give me the red-pill damn it! :mad:

[Trygon]

-Chaos will be gone mainly because of either A. the immense Tyrannic psychic presence or B. the Necrons finding some way to blot out the warp which they are already trying to do.

Chaos would auctally be gone because Tyranids and Necrons have no emotions and thus the warp would return to a calm state.

[Commander Xillian]

So yea. ecrons and Tyranids win. Ever body loses. Nobody survives. Emperor is powerless. That is the way things look mate:(

[Marticus]

I do really love my old Tau, but they have as much hope as a goldfish has in a maelstrom made of sharks and axes.

unfortunatly i agree.... however if we allied with the eldar and the imperium....... maybe. i know they think we xeno scum, but better us then orks or nids, theyve allied with us before and marnus calgar thinks we are honourable :)

[Trygon]

Marneus Clagar thinks they are honourable in Rise of Tau, which never happened. Its just among the many parodies written by fans for Warhammer 40k. In reality all the 'good' fractions have killed each other from the start in that they will never cooperate. And really, the Imperials and Eldar are doomed to die off before the Tau do. The phrase 'On the Brink of Extinction' normally means what it says and has been used to describe the Eldar Race and the Imperium on many occasions.

[Arctophylax Faren]

Are you sure? I did read somewhere, definitely GW canon, where the Ultramarines were fighting the Tau, then allied with them in order to face a common enemy. Then, they issued exterminatus, but allowed the Tau to get offworld first as they deemed them honourable.
Anyway, not all books are not canon. Look at Idaeus from McNeil's Ultramarines series. He's even in the Codex now, detail and all.

[Marticus]

Are you sure? I did read somewhere, definitely GW canon, where the Ultramarines were fighting the Tau, then allied with them in order to face a common enemy. Then, they issued exterminatus, but allowed the Tau to get offworld first as they deemed them honourable.
Anyway, not all books are not canon. Look at Idaeus from McNeil's Ultramarines series. He's even in the Codex now, detail and all.

thats correct dude!! its either in a white dwarf recently or the new 40k rulebook! for sure!

[Arctophylax Faren]

Marticus, this is the part where we both get to blow raspberries at Trygon, hehe! :)
Now that I think about it, I'm sure it was somewhere in the 40K rulebook, under a section about famous battles or something. Or the WD issue when 5th Edition come out. Almost 100% positive on that.

[Trygon]

Ah yeah! I remember that one. For some reason I was thinking of the Smurf Primarch when someone said Clagar. I get the two mixed up often.

[Arctophylax Faren]

Ah yeah! I remember that one. For some reason I was thinking of the Smurf Primarch when someone said Clagar. I get the two mixed up often.

The Primarch never met the Tau. He'd been sitting on his corpse ass for about 8,000 years by the time the Tau came a'knockin'!
No excuses Trygon! *blows raspberry* :D

[Trygon]

I thought they were talking about Rise of the Tau, a fanfic which Tau players quote as fact often.

[The Commodore]

Ah yeah! I remember that one. For some reason I was thinking of the Smurf Primarch when someone said Clagar. I get the two mixed up often.

How could you possibly mistake Roboute Guillamen with Marneus Calgar??? :eek:

That's like mistaking a fish for the holy God-Emperor! :p

[Trygon]

Their both blue, big, cowardly and incompetent tacticians. They are almost twins.

[The Commodore]

That is really not that fair an assessment there chap. And be careful of your words I would hate to see you lynched by Castus.

[Marticus]

The Primarch never met the Tau. He'd been sitting on his corpse ass for about 8,000 years by the time the Tau came a'knockin'!
No excuses Trygon! *blows raspberry* :D

indeed! i have never come across this fan fiction, i must admit. indeed a raspberry!

[Adrassil]

The Imperium of man and Eldar for the win!!! Why when both races have such odds rallyed against them?

Underdogs for one!! (look at the warriors beating The Storm for the quarter finals!)

And for two there my favorite races...Need I say more??

[Mycosynth]

I say the Orks. You just cant get rid of them, there will always be more.

Also, I've read Rise of the Tau, and its a pretty amazing work of fiction, very well written.

[Silver]

In the end it comes down to four:

Orks, Chaos, Necrons and Tyranids. All other races are either too few in number or too widely spread out (Imperium) to rally and actually make a difference.

Chaos would never win because it can only be strong near the Eye of Terror and other such Warp Anomalies. Necrons would not win because not every planet is a tomb world and even they lack number (but their repairing ability still makes them more survivable than the other doomed races mentioned above).

Orks or Tyranids...given that we don't know the total number of both, it's hard to say.

But because Tyranids evolve everytime they kill and ingest Ork DNA, it is only a matter of time till the Tyranids have become Ork Resistant and will then eat them all....

Tyranids for me!
-Silver

[Trygon]

Tyranids would in for sure because after the orks are wiped out Chaos would cease to exist due to no more emotions being left and the warp would return to its calm state and Necrons won't have the numbers to wipe the Tyranids out.

[Mycosynth]

I wouldn't rule out Orks so easily. You really just cant wipe them out. Think about it, ork dies, a bunch more grow out of the spores released. Even if Tyranids were to wipe out every single ork in existence, they would then move on, leaving the Orks yet ungrown to live in peace (insofar as that word applies to orks) and restart the ork race. This is also considering that the ork meks dont somehow just put together a ramshackle Nid killing thingymajig. :D

[Trygon]

Orks will be wiped out by Tyranids because Tyranids will evolve to destroy Orks but with Orks every batch of Orks is the same. Every ork world will also become infested and be reduced to a dry ball of rock so orks will no longer be able to reproduce.

[Mycosynth]

I'm not sure how they would evolve to be totally resistant to orks though. That would mean they're resistant to weapons in general, and if they could do that, they probably would have already.

[Trygon]

No, but Tyranids would evolve to be the perfect Ork killers. They would know all ork technology, battle tactics and psychology and have weapons that are totally and utterly perfect for killing orks. Orks will not change. They will stay as they are throughout with crude weapons and crude minds.

[Drackonis]

Tyranids are very, very good at consuming all forms of life, as well as minerals, soil, etc.

However, Necrons still win by default. Once the Tyranids and the Necrons have scoured all life from the galaxy, the Tyranids will move off, and only the Necrons will remain. Although, the Necrons'll probably move off to find another feeding ground too.

In the end the galaxy is left empty and devoid of life.

[Captain_Tarkus]

I agree with drackonis, accept the necronc wouldn't leave they'd just god dormant again for another millenia or two.

What I'd like to know is if the deceiver could wrangle his way into the tyranids and destroy them from within by poluting their synapsis?

[Drackonis]

Ah, but the Tyranids would strip all life away, so the Necrons wouldnt be able to wait for it to come back again.

I reckon they'd make a massive fleet and start moving towards another galaxy, going dormant for the trip.

[Mycosynth]

I still think that Orks would win in the end, just because they're Orks. Somehow, even if it seems impossible, they would win, because they're orks. Hell, I think every race has a chance to win. It doesn't seem right that theres a definite race that would win in all cases no matter what. The future hasn't been written yet, so you never know what the other races could do to turn the tide. Even the Tau could somehow make some technological advancement that allows them to become the dominant race in the galaxy.

[Drackonis]

I think this End Game type thing is assuming that the current level of technology/abilities/etc stays the same. There could, no doubt, be major discoveries, or new races turning up, or many more things, that ensure victory for any of the races.

Just imagine what it'd be like if the Imperium somehow recovered its lost technology and came out of its current state of stagnation! They almost conquered the galaxy before, and that was starting from a much smaller beginning. If the Imperium had the technological power and the massive resources they have now they would be unstopable!

Until the main Tyranid force arrives.

[Silver]

Trygon is right about the Nids, Mycosynth. Remember that when the Tyranids destroy an Ork world, they devour the local atmosphere, flora and fauna as well. So Ork spores are also devoured and Orks are "born" inside the tyranid fleet unarmed lol.

[Commander Xillian]

AAH! But here is the kicker! Life will always return to a galaxy, so even if the Tyranids move off, and the Necrons destroy all life, it will simple start back up again! I think that if the Imperium can get its act together, and ally the elder and tau, all three races have a chance of becoming dominant, as well as all three surviving. Plus, the chaos gods can have another Galaxy, right? just leave the Imperium and Tau and what else theirs.

[Marticus]

indeed commander.... between the eldar the imperium and the tau, all would be well, it combines the numbers and the technology.... and between the imperium and eldar esp the fleets! engage the nids in fleet actions too

[Silver]

Yeah, I think an Eldar-Tau-Imperium Alliance is the most plausible one and an extremely dangerous one, to boot. Combining Tau technology with Imperial numbers and the Eldar's ability to win the war by predicting when and where to strike, this will make the enemy have a tough time outclassing them. Especially because the enemy does not have an alliance and has to defend himself from other threats like Necrons, Nids or Chaos.

[Commander Xillian]

So, it is unite or die for those three, right? But, knowing lore wise, unless the Emperor walks off the throne, or the Imperium gets its act together, every body is doomed.

[Not a Cat]

Emperor gets up to sit on his "true" golden throne. Flushing the "true" spawns of chaos out of the Imperium and into the void of space. Peace, prosper, etc.

[Col.Feren]

In the End? The end of all things? The C'tan As they are the Embodiment of Death and therefore they ARE The End-The Inquisition is going to kill me aren't they?
But the end of the universe well here some thing on that

IMPERIUS DOMINATUS
The age of battle has begun

The fires of war Burn brightly from star to star,
Everywhere the Fortress of man are steeped in Blood,
And ancient enemies appear from the darkness.
Sensing weakness they gather for the KILL.
They know as we know that Night approaches and ALL mortal life SHALL BE EXTINGQUISHED.
YET WE KNOW ,As they cannot, That THERE shall BE A NEW DAWN! AND A NEW DAY! WHEN WELL SHALL RISE and THEY SHALL BE DRIVEN BACK IN TO THE DARKNESS... Forever.

The age of Battle has begun.
And soon the end of all things shall come.
and darkness shall fall on mankind.
until the dawn, a dawn where there shall be,
NO DUSK.
NO MUTANT.
NO ALIEN.
NO HERATIC.
NO DARKNESS
Only Light And Life
And The Knowledge that Man WILL Endure

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Who wins?

The Shark God.

[Silver]

Who wins?

The Shark God.

No. The Gretchin does.


I'd really respect a Black Library author who would write a book with the main character being a grot.

-Silver

[Commander Xillian]

In the End? The end of all things? The C'tan As they are the Embodiment of Death and therefore they ARE The End-The Inquisition is going to kill me aren't they?
But the end of the universe well here some thing on that

IMPERIUS DOMINATUS
The age of battle has begun

The fires of war Burn brightly from star to star,
Everywhere the Fortress of man are steeped in Blood,
And ancient enemies appear from the darkness.
Sensing weakness they gather for the KILL.
They know as we know that Night approaches and ALL mortal life SHALL BE EXTINGQUISHED.
YET WE KNOW ,As they cannot, That THERE shall BE A NEW DAWN! AND A NEW DAY! WHEN WELL SHALL RISE and THEY SHALL BE DRIVEN BACK IN TO THE DARKNESS... Forever.

The age of Battle has begun.
And soon the end of all things shall come.
and darkness shall fall on mankind.
until the dawn, a dawn where there shall be,
NO DUSK.
NO MUTANT.
NO ALIEN.
NO HERATIC.
NO DARKNESS
Only Light And Life
And The Knowledge that Man WILL Endure

[cues the orchestra to start playing heroic music]

[Indra]

In my opinion? Tyranids. An evolutionary race that simple leaves nothing behind to fight back.

Other races like orks will take longer to eat, but overall, Tyranids I think are the galaxies biggest threat.

Short, to the point I know, but there it is. Chaos would exist, always, but it'd need to find new outlets as the rest of the 'corruptable' races would be dead, and the Hive mind is an entity upon itself.

Indra

[VolatilSpam]

I agree, the Emperor just needs to sit on his throne and flush our troubles away.
*snicker*

[Col.Feren]

I agree, the Emperor just needs to sit on his throne and flush our troubles away.
*snicker*

Shut the hell up you crude little man *VolatilSpam stands up to his full 7 feet *


Oh crud!

[Trygon]

The Imperial Forces combined with the Tau and combined with the Eldar still won't even come close to out numbering races like Orks, Tyranids and Demons whom are almost infinite in their masses. Also the Imperium and the Eldar are already both near the edge of destruction, as says most 40k fluff, so I cannot imagine them having the resources to conquer the other main fractions. They would be more concerned on keeping their existing borders and survival.

[Commander Xillian]

But, is it also not true that the Imperium, if it were to bring all of its forces to bear on a single opponent, would crush them utterly?

[Trygon]

They would, but that would involve leaving most of their territory undefended, thus letting everyone come in and attack whilst they went on their little crusade. Their forces are also so spread out it would take years to gather them. And then there is what race to attack. Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos and Orks are examples of fractions that would not be the best thing to try to destroy as they would be fighting a losing war from the start, where as Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, etc would be out numbered, out gunned and utterly annihilated by all of the Imperium's military forces attacking the fraction all at once. Of coarse if they left Imperial space unguarded whilst they attacked one fraction, the other fractions would come in and invade so that the Imperial forces would have no territory left to come back to.

[VolatilSpam]

Basically, the Imperium needs to pray for the Star Child or an STC terminal and quick!


That, or just Found another two thousand Marine chapters >.>


AMIRITE GUYS??!

[Commander Xillian]

yes, but all they need to do is ally with the other factions, have those factions help them take back planets, and then go crazy with their black templars and blood ravens and ultra marines. And don't forget, they could do it, if they were to just slowly gather their forces, essentially back themselves into a corner, which they are in already, and just charge!

Also, when I said any force, I mean that. The Imperium is hard-cro Bad-Ass!

[Trygon]

But the over all fact is the Imperium wouldn't ally with Xeno races because they are Xenophobic. And the Imperium is massive. Gathering all their forces to one place in the Imperium would still leave the rest undefended and it would take another few years to get back to a planet or system if there was an attack on it. Also why would Xenos care for the Imperium's territory being defended even if they were allies? They wouldn't. If the Imperium was destroyed they would have easier time. Plus if Tau and Eldar allied with the Imperial forces, why bother attacking anything? The only race that could be attacked and be followed up with a victory would be the Dark Eldar, and they are not much of a real threat anyways. If they attacked any other fraction they would not stand a chance. If they attacked Chaos in the Eye of Terror they would be utterly butchered by endless legions of demons. If they went to kill off Tyranids, they would be fighting forever, since the current fleets are just scouting fleets when compared to the rest of them which would mean that eventually the Imperial forces would be destroyed. If they went for orks they would have a similar problem as with Tyranids, having to fight off endless tides of orks. They do not have the numbers or resources to destroy those three fractions. Then there are Necrons. Necrons are invincible essentially and can never be killed as long as the Star Gods exist, and the Star Gods could very well destroy the entire Imperium single handedly if they wanted to.

[Mycosynth]

The C'tan could'nt do that. If they could have they would have already, and they can be killed well enough (well not exactly killed but you get the point.)

[Carrelio]

The C'tan could destroy the imperium, but right now the souls of the humans are a tasty snack to the gods of the stars so they do not kill them all, not to mention the Necrons have yet to properly awaken.

I still stand by the fact that Chaos will win in the end, they are the only truely unkillable force, and so long as their is conflict more creatures will appear within the warp from the emotions of those fighting.

[Drackonis]

So long as there are creatures with a strong warp presense there will be chaos. The two main races that caused the Chaos gods are humans and eldar I beleive. When they're inevitably destroyed the warp will start to calm. Chaos isnt an independant force, its a relfection of the races with a link to the warp in the warp (think of it as echoes, or a reflection) and their dominant emotions; when they go, it goes.

When you consider the C'tan also consider they're far from their full strength, they've just woken up from a long, long, long sleep and it will take some time before they've regained their full, immense, strength. And when they do they will be almost unstoppable.

Just think, at the moment they're pretty damn strong and they're at their weakest.

Also, they wouldnt destroy everything, they feed on life, so they would want it to stay. So they're biding their time until they regain their full strength and endless legions before destroying the majority of life, after they've done that they'll probably keep a breeding race to satisfy their hunger. Im going to go with Orks, because they're stupid and reproduce very quickly, so you have a fast growing supply thats too stupid to pose a threat.

[Commander Xillian]

But, you forget, Green is best.

You are right though. Necrons will win, Tyranids will eat whats left over, humanity dies, cue Grimdark.

[Gareth Lorn]

I think the Tau will go hide again in their random corner of the universe, and everyone else will be wiped out. Eventually, it will be done to isolated worlds of human resistance that survived (probably Astartes home worlds). The Eldar and Dark Eldar would be gone, and the C'Tan would have been annihilated in the process of the war. Orks and Tyranids would be locked in perpetual war against one another (although I'd say that the Orks would win eventually).

The Tau would come back thousands of years later to check up on things and have a crap load of orks to contend with.

[LAZtheinfamous]

I believe that Chaos would win. Everyone talks about the Eye of Terror closing, but it wouldn't until AFTER the other psychic races were destroyed. The Tyranids or Necrons would run into the corrupting influence of Chaos before that would happen, and rot from the inside out, much like the Empire. Chaos would expand and corrupt all. A Nurgle based plague undoubtablly decimate the Tyranids, Slaneesh would re-introduce emotions (and desire) into the Necrons thus feeding Khorne and Tzeentch. Even the C'tan would be hard pressed to fight off ALL of deamons. The Eye of Terror would engulf the entire MilkyWay, and it would then turn its attention toward other galaxies. However I believe that SOME of every race would survive as servant/slaves to Chaos, after all there are entire worlds in the Eye of Terror that are human populated (as in the Gaunt's books). So in all Chaos Wins, everyone else serves.

[Drackonis]

Im not so sure about the Tyranids and chaos but I do know about Necrons and chaos!

Necrons have no warp link and so they cant be corrupted, there is no way for what is left of their minds to be effected or changed.

And speaking of their minds, they dont retain enough of them to be capable of emotion. Each necron is powered by a shard of the conciousness of a necrontyr, so one complete necrontyr becomes many necrons, which is how the reletively small necrontyr population has become the countless number of necrons.

I beleive the majority of the Tyranids also have no warp connection and we dont know much about the force controlling them, but it seems to deaden the warp. Im not sure how they'd deal with one of Nurgle's plagues, but the most likely solution would be to destroy everything thats got it and then come up with a cure, possibly modifying and using a version of the plague as a weapon. After all, they are very, very good at adapting

[Lepp]

Remember the Space Wolves and Salamanders fluff! (if somebody's already brought this up, sorry).

The Wolftime/ Age of the Dragon is nigh! War will engulf every corner of the galaxy and Leman Russ and Vulkan will return, alongside the greatest warriors of the all time, and fight the last battle in which the universe (galaxy, really) will be annhilated (yes, including both Chaos and the Emperor) and a new, better world will arise from the ashes!

[bilbojack62]

Okay then. It would be the imperium. Why? Sure they are spread out far and thin and are pretty weak in their normal soldiers, BUT, and its a big but, humanity always, always, always have someway of worming their way out of a situation. What i would really like to see though, is the emperor returning to power through some means and crushing everything in his path.

[Trygon]

The Imperium cannot win simply because they are on 'the brink of extinction'. Their doomed because they are dying out and also humans are squishy, emotional and easy to kill unlike Tyranids whom feel no pain and no emotion, Chaos Demons whom are unkillable and feed off souls, Necrons whom are immortal and emotionless and Orks whom are fuelled by madness. Also these four races all have almost endless quantities of troops, or in the case of Necrons; just can't be killed. Mankind does not have the luxury of endless resources and endless armies. When a planet is lost it is a big deal. If a few billion humans die then that is a serious loss. If this happens to Chaos, Orks or Tyranids they have plenty to go round, or if it happens to Necrons they will all come back shortly. And when the Emperor dies, if he becomes the star child would he come back to much of an Imperium at all? If he dies then warp travel becomes impossible on the spot. But this makes no difference to Necrons whom do not use the warp, Tyranids whom calm the warp as they go through it and Chaos whom is the warp so controls the warp anyways. The Imperium would be torn to bits from all sides.

[Gaius Julius]

I think you've got it wrong there Trygon. You forget that the Imperium of man may be spread thin, but it is the largest empire in the galaxy in the 40k universe, with millions of planets and trillions of citizens. Inquisitors blow up planets if they are tainted, killing thousands-the loss of a few million people is a big loss, yes-but there's plenty more where that came from.

Chaos, on the other hand, is comprised of a finite number of elite warriors (the virtually ancient Chaos Space Marines, made up of the 9 legions that broke away during the Horus Heresy). They also have millions of slaves (although fewer bodies than the Imperium I might add) and daemons, which are relatively weak because they can only be sustained for extended periods when the immaterium breaks through into the real world.

The necrons, well, no-one knows how many there are of them. Maybe there's a necron tomb on almost every world in the Galaxy? Or, maybe they're all awake?

The Tyranids can be stopped-several massive Hive fleets have attacked the Imperium, and they have been stopped (albeit Leviathan is a bit of a sleeping giant at the moment). However, Imperial estimates indicate that within a few years the bulk of the Tyranid race will attack the Galaxy and nothing will be able to stand in their way.

So Tyranids will win. Hands down:)

cheers

GJ

[KaizerVonAwesome]

Hello Lords and Ladies of Astronomican!

I was thinking today, if the the war in the 40K Universe were to come to an end, who would be the last army standing, and why? I'm saying far down the line, which army would have the best chance of success and ultimate survival? Who would be doomed to failure? I know it's a really geeky question but I thought I would ask your opinion :).

Thanks much!
Potion

Tau and Tyranids will be the last ones standing.

Never forget the Tau could conceivably crush anything in their path with their scientific prowess. Commie fish people, yeah yeah I know its cool to hate em, but they can invent a solution to anything theorietically.

Humans are toast. Ignorant and unable to adapt is no way to survive. Of course, this is why GW gives us all the really epic heroes.

[GeneralSturnn]

List of extinction(from first to last)

Dark Eldar
Eldar
Imperium of Man
Tau
Chaos
Orks
Necrons
Tyranids

(the ones closest to bottem are the ones who will survive the longest)

[The Warsmith]

necrons and nids will be stuck in an epic battle as they cant both really be killed.

[Drackonis]

Thats what I predict.

And then the Tyranids will move on because they'll run out of food to consume.

Leaving the Necrons winners by default!

[Corerosion]

Wouldnt necrons chase the tyranids? And I doubt the Chaos Gods would take this lightly, and no doubt will decide to exert some force somehow.

[Drackonis]

I think the Necrons would go in a different direction to the Tyranids. Too hard to farm them! But, they'd definatly go into hibernation again on a massive fleet, heading towards another galaxy.

And, im sure the Chaos Gods would put up a fight, but there's not much they can do. And they would steadily get weaker as all psychic races are destroyed. Not to mention getting smothered by the shadow the Tyranid fleets cast, and when their main force arrives I can imagine it (the shadow) will be massive!

[Corerosion]

Hmn...you have a point there. I'm quite sure chaos needs races with emotions to exist.

[Gaius Julius]

Yep, the Chaos Gods only exist because of the races of the 40k galaxy-if even some of them were wiped out, it would seriously damage the power of the Chaos Gods.

cheers

GJ

[Drackonis]

To be more specific, its races with a warp-link (so they project an image of their emotions into the warp).

So, Tau, Necrons and Tyranids are ruled out.

Do all Orks have a link?

[Ziggy Tempest]

Chaos will die before mankind. The chaos marines anyway. It seems Chaos can't exist without mankind...

[The Vulture]

Do all Orks have a link?

I believe so...because I heard somewhere that Gork and Mork might actually be Chaos Gods..


and Ziggy wouldn't that mean that mankind would die before Chaos because once mankind stops so does Chaos...and as long as mankind is alive so will Chaos.

and Chaos is not just traitor marines...they are just a small fraction of the might of Chaos..its real power lies in the daemons...which are immortal.


Also whats to say that the Chaos Gods aren't drawing power from other races as well?


Mankind could die and the Chaos Gods could live on albeit weakened severely.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Who says chaos needs to feed off humanity forever and ever and ever?

if it becomes strong enough (which it is VERY strong right now) it could support itself.

I know the Horus Heresy stuff could contradict this, but if I be honest, the gods are now truly awake and not awakening, so I would say that they will definately die out if humanity and all other psychic races do.

[Trygon]

Well one could suggest that there is more then just one galaxy in the universe of Warhammer 40k. We could also assume that some races outside this universe also have emotions. It would also be impossible for every single other galaxy to have been devoured by nids because if this had been the case then there probably would not be a 40k galaxy right now.

[Drackonis]

I was thinking about that earlier Trygon, and im thinking the Chaos Gods must only have influence over the area of real-space where the emotions that sustain them are present.

There would have to be other galaxies with races who have psychic abilities (not just emotions - Tau have them and no warp presence, etc). And these other galaxies would cause other major Chaos Gods to form, and we havent seen any sign of them!

Also, all the major Chaos gods were created after specific events in the 40k galaxy (and not in any others) and I believe a good portion of them are mainly caused by humanity.

So, I think that Chaos entities can only exist near their "creators" both in real-space and in warp-space.

[Corerosion]

Hmn... That makes sense. Essentially, it was said somewhere that chaos was born from emotions, "anger" and suchlike, therefore when emotions end, so should chaos. Oh, a question since I don't know much 'nid fluff, how about Zoanthropes? (Did I spell that correctly?) They have a warp-link right?

[Drackonis]

It basically works like this:

There's real-space and warp-space.

Races with pyschic abilities and strong emotions leave "ripples" in the warp, as the races increase in number so does the number and amount of ripples. Eventually the ripples reach such a level that they disterb the warp enough to spawn warp-entities, which are the psychic races emotions given a kind of life based on the phsychic races subconcious "idea" of what the warp entities should be (act, behave, look like).

The warp is kind of like a pond, it started smooth, psychic races started appearing and having strong emotions which leave ripples, eventually the ripples build up enough to cause the surface of the pond to become very choppy and "chaotic." When the races who are causing the ripples die out so do the ripples; the pool returns to its original calm state.


Im not too sure about the Tyranids either. But, they seem to have a strange affect on the Warp, they cast a "shadow" in it, which I guess would be an area of the warp thats calmed to a state similar to how it originally was. This would mean that any Tyranids with warp abilities would draw from the calmed bit of the warp making them safe from the dangers that affect the psychics of other races.


The calm warp is vastly different to the Chaos that it is covered with now, it allowed all maner of miracles to be performed with no risk, and it is because of the increasing Chaos that the Emperor was "born." His duty was to guide humanity and I would assume to ultimatly find a way to calm the warp.

[ThePixelGuru]

Maybe it's just because I'm a Tyranid player, but I don't see much standing against the Tyranids. I think the only way to stop them would be to kill them all before they figure out how to out-evolve you, and it doesn't seem like there's a force strong enough to wipe them out. And nothing evolves faster than the Tyranids. Eventually, the Great Devourer shall consume all. :D

[gamer123789]

I think that the imperium of man, necrons, and nids, or orks


check the pic out

[Dragonhammer]

It'll come down to Tyranids and Necrons. Tyranids are the perfect life-form; they exist for no other reason than to accomplish their prime directive: consume. Necrons are emotionless, autonomous killers who lost their humanity long ago.

Both of these races are the only ones that do not have any divisions in their ranks. There are no heretic necrons, no abhorrent tyranids.

The Imperium will fall first. However, humanity will continue. They will be the last to die, in the apocalyptic war of necron vs. tyranid. Eldar and dark eldar will drive each other into hell. Chaos will lose so much power because of the death of its main power source (the collective human consciousness) that it will cease to be a major power, and the orks will consume each other.

Tau? They moved to another galaxy, spreading the Greater Good.

[Commissar Rics]

I think in the end, there will be a giant battle beten all races. And no one will ever knows who will win.

[The Vulture]

Im not too sure about the Tyranids either. But, they seem to have a strange affect on the Warp, they cast a "shadow" in it, which I guess would be an area of the warp thats calmed to a state similar to how it originally was. This would mean that any Tyranids with warp abilities would draw from the calmed bit of the warp making them safe from the dangers that affect the psychics of other races.
.

Actually I just finished reading the Tyranids codex and it says the Shadow is actually a disturbance not a calming, it causes warp storms around the area and messes up astropaths with its ferocity, so the astropaths cant get out a message and ships that try and leave get either destroyed or sent off course. Yet its weird because in the same codex the fluff contradicts itself, with the case of Devlan, a planet that was under the attack of Hive Fleet Kraken. When a bunch of merchant ships managed to flee with the help of Space Marines guarding their evacuation...I am not sure, maybe those ships got lucky or something... ;)

[scribe]

Only beings capable of real, logical thought patterns can attain victory. Chaos can't conquer because chaos dictates that there is no order. A chaos victory is quintessentially rooted in the survival of man, Eldar and Tau. To greater or lesser degrees, all feed chaos. So while all three exist, so will Chaos.


Tyranids, Orks and the Necrontyr are all capable of great destruction, but they will never be able to tackle the whole Galaxy because they lack the logistical resources to do so. Or the "brains" to concentrate their efforts.

In the case of the Tyranids, they are very easily detected within a star system because they take so long to cleanse a planet of resistance and then harvest it. Given that such feats require a huge bulk of thier fleet, it's a single planet at a time operation, and that would take thousands upon thousands of years when applied to the entire Galaxy. No chance of them wiping the Imperium, Eldar, Tau, Orks or Necrontyr out.

The orks also do not stand a chance of wiping all the others out because they are incapable of uniting as one, they just can't do it because all they think of is fighting and it's easier to fight each other when they're not on a system Waaagh.

The Necrontyr are simply far too dfew in number to do anything more than survive, and I would argue they are actually receding in number. If a single space marine chapter is able to take out a Necron world, what chance do they have in the long run?

The Imperium, Eldar and Tau will do whatever they have to do to survive. They will not form long term alliances with one another but they will, crucially, unite if it serves their interests. All three would put their rivalries on hold in order to survive and overcome the greater threats of the Galaxy. This will also not stop the Orks, Tyranids and Necrontyr fighting each other. Bringing their weight of numbers against one another will simply result in the Imperium, Eldar and tau being the eventual winners because they will inflict such severe casualties on one another that they will no longer be a threat to the Galaxy at large.

Once this is the case, the Eldar, Tau and Imperium will go back to fighting one another and Chaos will continue to feed off the emotions of each race.

[Arkaedin]

One problem though- the Tyranid fleets that have entered the galaxy are supposedly only scouting forces. We have yet to witness an ACTUAL Hive Fleet which could be able to make short work of any living organism in our galaxy.

[scribe]

One problem though- the Tyranid fleets that have entered the galaxy are supposedly only scouting forces. We have yet to witness an ACTUAL Hive Fleet which could be able to make short work of any living organism in our galaxy.

All speculation, let's just concnetrate on sending the blighters we can see back to the hive mind that way, we'll be back home in time for tea and crumpets.

[The Vulture]

All speculation, let's just concnetrate on sending the blighters we can see back to the hive mind that way, we'll be back home in time for tea and crumpets.

More than just speculation, its judged by the way they move, where they show up, what they do...They are probing the Imperium for weaknesses, taking down key planets (or attempting to) that would allow the larger portion of its army to reign supreme...look me in the eyes and tell me they didn't target Ultramar because of the smurfs presence there...the smurfs are a large force of marines, an army would do good to eliminate its enemies elite, wouldn't they?


Besides, you say they act slowly? Almost a whole sector was overrun by Hive Fleet Kraken in just a decade! A DECADE! and a few hundred years they could have reached Terra! that is not slow in my opinion, especially for just a vanguard force.


I say Tyranids win it all...



and btw the Necrontyr are not few in number, many believe they number in the millions. Most of them just haven't woken up yet...It says right in the Necron codex "our number is legion".. that means basically a lot..

[scribe]

Na, we'll capture one of their ships, scour it for weaknesses and develop a biological disease that will effectively take out all Tyranids of that hive fleet. All you've got to do is catch a Nid by the toe.

[Hephesto]

Last spaceship that tried biological warfare ended by hit by nid weaponry using the same viral agent they had used :D

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Na, we'll capture one of their ships, scour it for weaknesses and develop a biological disease that will effectively take out all Tyranids of that hive fleet. All you've got to do is catch a Nid by the toe.

Uriel Ventris did that already. Again speculation whether it could work again or not.

There will be no victor, it will just carry on and on and on and on, with distinct difference but essentially the same thing. Kinda like most of Dragon Force. :D

[scribe]

Last spaceship that tried biological warfare ended by hit by nid weaponry using the same viral agent they had used :D

Whaaat? They have scientists that can do that back? Well, I take it we learned our lesson from that... hit them harder and with more biological weapons so that they don't get to strike back! Blasted nids. *Walks off grumbling*.

[mclovin95]

i hate nids, and im a crimson fist player, but anyway im gonna say that when the emp dies hell become starchild and some priamrchs will come back and humanitys back on top again(probasbly for a short time period)

[The Vulture]

Whaaat? They have scientists that can do that back? Well, I take it we learned our lesson from that... hit them harder and with more biological weapons so that they don't get to strike back! Blasted nids. *Walks off grumbling*.

No, if you actually look up Tyranids one of the first things you will learn is they are like a virus, they will develop immunities to things you throw at them incredibly quickly, just making the hive stronger, with yet another immunity and less options for you. Basically scribe, biological weaponry of any kind is a VERY BAD idea against the Tyranids, they are the Kings of Biological, and they will pwn you if you try and play their game.

You guys need to find another way, but so far everything the Imperium has tried against the Nids has either been thrown back in their face harder than they threw it, or simply didn't work. The only thing that works right now is sheer brute force, and that wont work when the larger force arrives...it will simply be Game Over!

[scribe]

No, if you actually look up Tyranids one of the first things you will learn is they are like a virus, they will develop immunities to things you throw at them incredibly quickly, just making the hive stronger, with yet another immunity and less options for you. Basically scribe, biological weaponry of any kind is a VERY BAD idea against the Tyranids, they are the Kings of Biological, and they will pwn you if you try and play their game.

You guys need to find another way, but so far everything the Imperium has tried against the Nids has either been thrown back in their face harder than they threw it, or simply didn't work. The only thing that works right now is sheer brute force, and that wont work when the larger force arrives...it will simply be Game Over!

It's very likely that the fleets we have encountered up until this point are just scouting tendrils of a larger body. Personally I think it's all bigged up a bit too much, we squashed 'em good and proper on Macragge, my lad. And you have to think that the Orks are going to cause them some real problems...

The reason I say that is simply because the nids would have to consume an awful lot of Ork planets to get enough "biological data" to evolve and I personally think the Orks are too difficult to overwhelm like this. They'll just squash the ground forces and then go after 'em in their ramshackle ships, Orkie style.

[The Vulture]

It's very likely that the fleets we have encountered up until this point are just scouting tendrils of a larger body. Personally I think it's all bigged up a bit too much, we squashed 'em good and proper on Macragge, my lad. And you have to think that the Orks are going to cause them some real problems...

The reason I say that is simply because the nids would have to consume an awful lot of Ork planets to get enough "biological data" to evolve and I personally think the Orks are too difficult to overwhelm like this. They'll just squash the ground forces and then go after 'em in their ramshackle ships, Orkie style.

Funny you should mention that as there are already species of Tyranids derived from Orks...and for the Tyranids to collect data...victory must have been obtained..meaning the Orks have already suffered at least one defeat as you imply is impossible...so what can the Orks do to stop them?

[scribe]

Funny you should mention that as there are already species of Tyranids derived from Orks...and for the Tyranids to collect data...victory must have been obtained..meaning the Orks have already suffered at least one defeat as you imply is impossible...so what can the Orks do to stop them?

Don't be daft, matey, they're not unbeatable, I am just saying that they are not going to be engulfed that easily. Boss Snikrot is going to sneak up on 'em and take 'em out.

[The Vulture]

Don't be daft, matey, they're not unbeatable, I am just saying that they are not going to be engulfed that easily. Boss Snikrot is going to sneak up on 'em and take 'em out.

The Imperium wont be engulfed that easily either, but the point is, they will be, unless you guys find a way to effectively stop the Great Devourer, every race will be bombarded into extinction by the Tyranids...even if it takes a few thousand years in the case of the Orks.

[VolatilSpam]

Orks never lose. Check their fluff.

[The Banished Ranger]

Skipped like 9 pages worth of comments but just wanted to state that Chaos is only as eternal as the feelings produced by humans, orks and others who's mind is registered in the nether. Without humans or orks Khorne would simple non exist due to some law of quantum physics. If the tyranids grew some brains and figured out how to photosynthesize then they'd have my bet.

BTW: Every, i mean every single army book has something in it like a saving grace to come out on top in the galaxy. The Eldar God of Death, return of the Primarchs, Orks is neva beatan 'n battle, We dont know how large the Tyranids are, etc...

So we'll just keep fighting and never stop, Things will cling to life like a plant clings to a rock cliff. Eternal battle, never ceasing. Things will always look grim. Kind of like a Valhalla without the beer. :(

[The Vulture]

Orks never lose. Check their fluff.

I saw this post and laughed...


Surely you aren't serious?

[Arkaedin]

. . .

Ork fluff states that they don't lose, just that they haven't finished the fight if they leave. :D

[The Vulture]

. . .

Ork fluff states that they don't lose, just that they haven't finished the fight if they leave. :D

Really? Haha! The Ork codex is the only codex I dont own....imma have to go buy it now.. ;)


Funny Ork Propaganda....

[lt pivole]

Excuse me if the point has already been made, but has anyone even begun reading the rise of the tau?
i'm at chapter 45, but i get the general jist of things. basically, they're going to own.

[Brother_Chaplian Raimo]

Excuse me if the point has already been made, but has anyone even begun reading the rise of the tau?
i'm at chapter 45, but i get the general jist of things. basically, they're going to own.

Ugh...hate hate hate hate hate hate. Don't even ask me why. A man's gotta have his principles.

[lt pivole]

what do you hate? the tau or the story?

[Brother_Chaplian Raimo]

what do you hate? the tau or the story?

Don't get me wrong- I actually play Tau. It's the story that I, to put it in a nutshell, despise with a passion that is infinite.

[The Vulture]

Don't get me wrong- I actually play Tau. It's the story that I, to put it in a nutshell, despise with a passion that is infinite.

Now myself...with my infinite curiosity must ask...why is that so?

[Brother_Chaplian Raimo]

Now myself...with my infinite curiosity must ask...why is that so?

To be brutally honest, the reasons aren't even that good- I find the concept to be stupid, and the writing mediocre or worse. Those might actually be pretty good reasons...

By the way, I'd hate to offend a certian author, if he's reading. It's very rarely anything personal.

[The Banished Ranger]

We all know there is going to be a new race of geneticaly altered turtles that will descend from their scaly ships and destroy everything in their path by their slow methodical means.

Don't mess with the turtles, especially those snappers!

[ItemfinderDeluxe]

And everyone knows that the actual Hive Mind is being controlled by the Squats :D . But seriously, if a Hive Fleet goes from the Great Void to the 40K Galaxy, can they actually return back to it? I've never been too sure on that issue.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Vulture matey.

Ork fluff is awesome!

[Nomad]

Orkses will be left. Da more yaz kill da more dere iz! Da sporez spred and da orkz grows!

[scribe]

Orkses will be left. Da more yaz kill da more dere iz! Da sporez spred and da orkz grows!

An' den deys bash da' snot outta' dem scaly aliens.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

An' den each uvver.

Har har har...

Good times!

[lt pivole]

or alternatively, there could just be a galaxy-wide exterminatus of anything that isn't a shrine world or something of extreme tactical importance, I.e. the cadian gate.

[gamer123789]

no i think the imperium will probably be at the end

[Drackonis]

no i think the imperium will probably be at the end

It would definatly be one of the last factions left, I mean, they control a lot of space.

But they have no hope against the Tyranids or Necrons unless something major happens.

The Orks arent a major contendor unless some force appears that can control them. I remember reading about a kind of special ork that was intelligent and was designed to lead the others, except they all died out soon after the Old Ones disappeared.

[Commander Xillian]

or alternatively, there could just be a galaxy-wide exterminatus of anything that isn't a shrine world or something of extreme tactical importance, I.e. the cadian gate.

Psyker:"Dude... We are totally getting beat down.."
Tech Priest: "Srrusly, right?"
Crazy Insane Commisar:"DRIVE ME CLOSER! I WANT-"
Psyker:[Flips off the Commisar, causing his head to implode]
Tech Priest: [Gets an idea]
____
Year Later
____

Psyker: Are you sure this will work?
Tech Priest: Yes. I am sure. Just make sure that the Anti-Rage bunker is secure.
_________
Camera zooms out to see a giant magnifying glass held in front of the emperors middle-finger

[gamer123789]

well its gonna be hard attking terra cause it is heavily defended by a LOT of ships

[Mycosynth]

Games Workshop loves the Imperium and will never have it lose ever, so therefore the Imperium wins.

[gamer123789]

yeah for the imperium

and also we are humans so ya mankind wins

[Trygon]

Orks: Could win for endless numbers and barbarity.

Tyranids: Could win because they appear to have a almost infinite amount of troops and devour entire planets.

Necrons: Could win due to being almost invincible and rock hard in battle.

Imperium: Could win because unlike the other races they really know how to lick GW boot.

[Col.Feren]

the Imperium will stay to the end I mean who else will proved forge world with an excuse for super heavy tanks? Not the nids for sure!

[Mycosynth]

Nids have forgeworld models too, and theyre pretty big.

[Silver]

Orks: Could win for endless numbers and barbarity.

Tyranids: Could win because they appear to have a almost infinite amount of troops and devour entire planets.

Necrons: Could win due to being almost invincible and rock hard in battle.

Imperium: Could win because unlike the other races they really know how to lick GW boot.

Eldar: Could win because nobody expects them to. So many Guardians keep dying that their Death God finally awakes and kicks everyone's rear.

[scribe]

No, the astro gretchin will win because it's destined to be. :)

[Consadine]

Equilibrium, with ebbs and flows of which faction is stronger, until the universe collapses on itself (Big Crunch).
Physics wins :p

[The Vulture]

Equilibrium, with ebbs and flows of which faction is stronger, until the universe collapses on itself (Big Crunch).
Physics wins :p

Actually warp spawned creatures defy physics...so physics has already lost.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Do they defy a battle cannon?

Errm...

Nope! :p

[The Vulture]

Do they defy a battle cannon?

Errm...

Nope! :p

Sometimes...


Ever seen a festering servant of Nurgle divide himself in half so the cannon goes through him? In fact all daemons can do crazy stuff like that...they dont need to abide by the laws of physics...


physics is for pansies..

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

They don't use the laws of physics yes, but it does apply to them somewhat, just they are not bound by it, nor divorced from it. (Silly obliterator reference FTW!!)

And no, never seen a plaguebearer split after a cannon is shot at him. But a reference if ye have it?

1) I ain't livin' in the 40k Universe
2) I don't think you literally throw cannons at them! :D (Sorry, had to. :D)

[ThePixelGuru]

Well, I think 40k makes both physics and chemistry weep, so I just assume the laws of their universe are a little different than ours.


No, if you actually look up Tyranids one of the first things you will learn is they are like a virus, they will develop immunities to things you throw at them incredibly quickly, just making the hive stronger, with yet another immunity and less options for you. Basically scribe, biological weaponry of any kind is a VERY BAD idea against the Tyranids, they are the Kings of Biological, and they will pwn you if you try and play their game.
Truth. For thousands of years the Tech Adepts have been going backwards. They've forgotten most of what they knew and broken most of what still works. I'd say the chances of the Imperium out-engineering living, breathing bio-weapons that self-engineer are slim to none.


If the tyranids grew some brains and figured out how to photosynthesize then they'd have my bet.
Wow. They have absorbed Ork DNA - if they figure out that little trick the rest of the galaxy is in for a nasty surprise.


BTW: Every, i mean every single army book has something in it like a saving grace to come out on top in the galaxy. The Eldar God of Death, return of the Primarchs, Orks is neva beatan 'n battle, We dont know how large the Tyranids are, etc...
Quite true - with so many potential trump cards almost every race has a chance at it. Probably one of the many reasons GW won't go past M41.


Kind of like a Valhalla without the beer. :(
Hah! New 40k motto, anyone?


But seriously, if a Hive Fleet goes from the Great Void to the 40K Galaxy, can they actually return back to it? I've never been too sure on that issue.
I don't see why not. After all, the Hive Fleets had to leave another galaxy for the Void in order to get to the Milky Way, and when they're done here they'll presumably return to the Void to go to another galaxy. Most likely they need to redistribute some of their biomass to store energy for the long hibernation, but I don't see why they couldn't.


Orkses will be left. Da more yaz kill da more dere iz! Da sporez spred and da orkz grows!
True, they're almost impossible to eradicate, but if any race can do it my money's on the Tyranids. Kill all the Orks, eat all the Orks, have bacteriophage eat all Ork spores, and done. 3rd Ed 'nid codex makes reference to a Tyranid bacteriophage (complete with diagram) in case you're wondering where I got that from. Orks would have a chance if they all united, but that's not going to happen.

My money's still on the 'nids, though the Necrons have a good shot at it, too. Whichever happens there's not going to be a whole lot else left in the galaxy. Tyranids will eat all biomass, Necrons will just harvest all intelligent life. I don't see a whole lot standing in the way of either.

[Commander Xillian]

Why don't we just agree to disagree? Then, we will know, in our heart of hearts, that they are wrong and we are right.

[The Vulture]

Why don't we just agree to disagree? Then, we will know, in our heart of hearts, that they are wrong and we are right.

Well....that wouldn't be very fun...

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Squats will win!! :D

No wait...

Aww... :(

[Trygon]

Well....that wouldn't be very fun...

The Imperials are resorting to 'astro gretchin' and 'agree to disagree' to try and change the subject or kill the topic. They know they have lost. http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/Terrible_Trygon/Trygon/TRygonAstro.jpg

[Commander Xillian]

The Imperials are resorting to 'astro gretchin' and 'agree to disagree' to try and change the subject or kill the topic. They know they have lost. http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/Terrible_Trygon/Trygon/TRygonAstro.jpg

Any which way we slice it, the galixy will be devoid of life in the end, because both the Chaos and Imperials cannot stand up to the combined might of the Necrons and Tyranids. In the end, it all dies. So, topic over.

[The Vulture]

Any which way we slice it, the galixy will be devoid of life in the end, because both the Chaos and Imperials cannot stand up to the combined might of the Necrons and Tyranids. In the end, it all dies. So, topic over.

But it wouldnt be as combined as you think, the Necrons would probably go after the Tyranids first as they have a very strong psychic resonance and Necrons hate psykers.

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

So fi necrons only go after psychers then does that mean they pretty much leave the tau alone?(I very much dobt it vulture)

[The Vulture]

So fi necrons only go after psychers then does that mean they pretty much leave the tau alone?(I very much dobt it vulture)

No you misunderstand they hate all life...but they ESPECIALLY hate psykers...

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Well, no race will persue another entirely with all of their forces, juast ridiculous. There will be attacks on them from many other races and such.

[The Vulture]

Well, no race will persue another entirely with all of their forces, juast ridiculous. There will be attacks on them from many other races and such.

Well what im saying is they would probably CONCENTRATE on the Tyranids as they (I think) have the most powerful psychic signature and the Necrons would be drawn to them.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

But then they will probably be assailed by other races and such as I said. That will happen for sure.

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

So if they are attracted so ferociously to something they hate(the tyranids) then what about something they like and what would they do to gain whatever the umm...necrons objective is.....(proabably windows 99:))

what about the tau?do you guys think theyll last or will the tyranids(or orks,or someone else in our universe)destroy them?

Personally i htink they are techonologically advanced enought to survive but if they get assaulted from the north of their empire by two Waaghs, from the east 1 hive fleet the size of kraken,and an entire chapter of space marines or chaos from the west at the same time then you can kiss their lives good bye.:D

And after their empire remains in ruins the people that made their way there to conquer will proabably fight over the remains with whatever is left of the "greater good".I say the area has A very big potential into turning into a perfect galactical warzone.:D:):D:cool::D:)

[The Vulture]

I think it is most likely that the Tau Empire wont even be targetted but simply engulfed in the wake of the Great Devourer.

[gamer123789]

strangely the tau and the necrons are neutral

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

yeah they are neutral.At least until they want something then they get all

"for the greater good" and "[deathly silence]" on your butt.:D

[gamer123789]

hahaha

nids and orks are neutral tooo strangely

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

I wouldnt call the nids and orks neutral at all.;)

Nids well...come on they eat you and make you into them...those abominations you know into one of them.Then the orks....when they arent fighting each other then they fight us.Thats not exactly neutral...thats fickle right there.AN inability to choose who you want to fight is really just fickle.:D

[gamer123789]

if you look at that chart on gw it says they are neutral but.............when you think about it............nids just kill everything in thier path

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

and the orks cant decide on what to kill first since they consider it a sport.

[gamer123789]

ha ya

ork planets are where the imperium and all the other races dump thier trash on

[Arkaedin]

That chart has to do with viability of allying with other races for apocalypse games, nothing to do with who kills more or anything along those lines.

[gamer123789]

so basically orks cant ally much with any 1

[Skrall]

so basically orks cant ally much with any 1

One

And for game terms, its easy to concieve the orks duffing up the bigger threat, figger the humies/other race can be dakka'd later when the biggest thing to fights snuffed. nids will just run along and eat everything, so long as their 'ally' doesn't run infront of them,

think of them like sisters of battle, instead of shouting 'HERETICS!' whilst pointing at the enemy and letting them loose, you shout 'ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET!' then run out of the way and watch as both sides thin each other down.

-skrall

[Tribalminer]

Well, back to the original question, I'll put my reasons for an against each race. (Theyre are a lot of bug supporters here aren't there?)

Tyranids (For) - Well, theres the massive argument that actually the forces that the 40k galaxy have encountered are just scouting forces, and that there is a massive force waiting for the right time to attack. But even without that threat, the Tyranids have proven many time how deadly they are. There ability to create a new variation in a matter of moments, along with the shear production rate is scary.

Then we have the shadow in the warp. Now, from what I can see, its seems that psychic ability is a bit like a radio system, with some transmitters being more important than others. When the tyranids attack, there psychic web overrides normal psykers, and so psykers here this 'instinctive' behaviour. This is my reasoning why when psykers are near the shadow, they say 'theyre hungry' Tyranids want to eat, and their orders are... eat. Tyanids also have no souls. No souls means that the Chaos God's aren't interested, unless they are directly threatened. Hence the awesome picture on page 51 of the BRB, where a carnifex is getting owned by a bloodthirster.

Tyranids (Against) - Well, IF the force outside of the 40k galaxy is so powerful, why hasn't it arrived. But more importantly, the 'Scout' forces have been beaten at most oppurtunities. If a series of 'scout' forces are destroyed, wouldn't the Hive Mind decide there may be better places to attack? That actually Another Universe/Galaxy/Area of Space, would be better to attack?

On the topic of the Shadow in the Warp, a certain Chaplain Astador of the Mortifactors somehow managed to penetrate this 'shadow' and 'cast his 'ghost self' to find one of the leaders of the swarm's that attacks Taris Ultra. He says that it threatened to overwhelm him, but it means a Chaplain. Yes, a Chaplain, someone how managed to break this psychic barrior. How he did this is down to purity, duty, determination, and sheer marine awesomeness.
N.B. There where two hive ships just above the planet when the attack happened, so the shadow would be strong.

Overall, I recon there's a good chance of the Tyranids winning, but I wouldn't count on it.

Necrons (for) - I'm not an expert on these dudes. The 'We are Legion' shows that they don't know how many necrons there are. They wiped the galaxy clean (sorta).

Necrons (Against) - Right, you've got the fact that the Deciever almost killed the Nightbringer. The deciever seems to be an anthema against the entire necron race. Now, the Necrons apparently wiped most of the galaxy clean. Then stopped, to let the races grow again. If the necrons did 'take over' then this would happen again. After all, if you kill everyone, you won't be able to haverst them.

The tau have developed weapons to fight against the necrons, which means that, given enough time, the tau may find a way to defeat the necrons. Unlikely, but possible.

I really don't think the necrons will rule. They don't seem to have the ability to work together. That, and they keep on having naps.

Orks (for) - Deyz orks, dey live ta fight n win.
On a slightly differnet note. We think this gun works, so it does? Well, thats not good. That means that IF there are enough orks and IF there is enough belief, anything will fall. And theres always enough boyz. This means that yes, there is a good chance of the orks looting and using everything against opponents. "Hi void dragon, fancy being part of ma new shoota?"

Orks (against) - The only reason that the orks don't rule already is because the can't stop fighting. With Everything. Anywhere. Be it the eye of terror, armageddon, you name it, they'll keep fighting. They'll survive for eternity, but only so they can keep fighting. The Orks, won't rule, and won't survive.

Overall, orks will survive. If that means that all the races die from starvation plague etc before hand, then yes, the orks will win. If not, they'll just keep fighting.

The Imperium Of Man (For) - Well, we've got a massive empire, and as long as we've got the basic necesseties, we'll never run out of people. We can't reproduce as well as the orks or the tyranids, but we give it our best shot. Like a plague, the Imperium of man may take over the galaxy. If the Emperor gets better, he can lead another crusade and free the galaxy from its filth. However, there have been other heroes. The particular one that I know of is Lord Solar Macharius. He captured the stars till he ran out. His conquests where legendary, and the only reason why he stopped was A) he became ill, and B)The astronomican became to dim. Now, the astronomican is one of the most powerful and long spanning things in the 40k universe. When it 'gets to dim' you've gone pretty far. So, if another Macharius appears, the Imperium of man have got a good chance.

The Imperium of Man (Against) - Well, The Imperium tends to break away from itself and rebel. Another Proper HeresyTM would stop any plans of ruling the galaxy straight away. The void dragon could do damage if it wakes up etc.....

The imperium will survive, but not rule

The other races are either too few, reliant on the other races etc to rule or survive. The TAU MAY survive, but its more dependent on wether the major powers concentrate on them.

Well, my theory summed up is that the Universe will be in a total state of conflict, unless the tau, imperium and eldar join up.

[gamer123789]

thats a one very good post

[Goth-Sothoth]

Hi all,
I reckon the tryranids would be last gribbly standing, but here's a thought. I've always had the feeling the Hive Mind exists simultaneously in the warp and real space, as its effectively the 'god' of the tyrands.
Soooo - is it possible for the tyranids to drift into the eye of terror and the hive mind to actually eat the chaos gods? After all, no matter how powerful they are, the hive mind's warp presence must be BIG and very hungry.
What Im curious about is - what happens next? Eating gods of plague, bloodshed, lust and magic can't be good for you. Would they survive in the Hive Mind's psychic belly and slowly drive it mad? Or could it assimilate them the same way the tyranids assimilate DNA and turn into a cosmic mega chaos-tyranid-evil-ravenous beasty? If so, its probably goodnight Berlin for the galaxy, and the whole universe.

[Colonel Marbi Chora]

From my point of view, there are three races that stand a chance of ruling the galaxy. In the order of probablility, they are...

1. Chaos
2. The Imperium of Man
3. The Eldar

Now, first is CHAOS.

I am a personal hater of the foul denizens, but I must say that they have a rather high chance of galactic domination.

Chaos is the anethma of all the psychic beings in the galaxy. They corrupt and twist their foes in ways that would shatter sanity (to sound like an imperial scribe). In now-terms, they are a perfect force.

They are without number.

This is relying on the daemonic legions. In theory, they will exist for as long as humans exist. If daemons are emotions made real, then they will exist for a long, long time. And they are constantly warring. However, if they were to ALL be brought to task (As during the Horus Heresy), they would be unstoppable.

The only person able to halt chaos is now on death's doorstep, wounded and rent beyond all repair. If There was to be ANOTHER chaos lord or, forbid it, another primarch able to enlist all the chaos powers, he would be unstoppable. Imagine a beast with the strength of Angron, but instead of an all-consuming blood-thirst, he is strong in the psychic areas, able to sway any who he opposes, and cannot be killed through massed injury. It would be a true lord of the apocalypse.

However, this would be unlikely. Allmost all the chaos primarchs are aligned to a power, and the ones who aren't are either dead, missing, or too paranoid to take on such a task.

Now, as For the IMPERIUM.

They are the largest (living) force in the galaxy, save the orks. They are strict and regimented, they are able to throw thousands of men away daily, perhaps hourly, and still be over-popuated.

They have amazingly clever generals (for humans), powerful war-machines, and Elite soldiers that can halt a chaos crusade or crush a Tyranid Hive-Fleet.

Then there is the Star-Child Theory, or that when the Emperor is granted death, he will become the fifth Chaos god, one of order and purity. Imagine, a Chaos god as strong as the other four combined, and able to control a gigantic empire that is built on bloodshed and sacrafice, filled with warriors that make the men from the 300 movie look like simpering little children. If he is revived, or if he is drawn back from the brink of death and into a suitable host body, I have no doubt that the Imperium will reign again.

And Finally, the ELDAR.

I have only one reason for them, but I think that it's enough.

I'm a little shaky on the idea, but It resides in Ynead, the Eldar god of the dead. It was said by Eldrad Ulthuan that when a certain number of the Eldar dies, this new god would be born, similar to Slannesh. And seeing as a new god would be created, this might create some sort of affect similar to the blossoming of the Eye of Terror, perhaps the opposite affect.

That's my two cents!

The Colonel

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

I like your chaos one mate! ;)

I don't think that the denizens of the warp now need the emotions as much to survive, just to make MORE. I have read some pretty good sources t confirm this (IE: Emperor's throne stops working and everyone is gone because of endless daemonic waves and all of that plap).

[Skringly]

The problem is that the gods are like orks, Khorne will never stop trying to destroy the "false god" as he is know. Daemons can't just appear, and without hosts (humanity) They would never walk this plain.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Thing is though according to my official cannon as soon as the beloved corpse-god's astrnomican dies out completely you say bye bye to every thing in the galaxy.

Everything. I am yet to find a source to contradict this.

[gamer123789]

Well lets just say that in the end is going to be the NECRONS they can not be destroyed in any way

[japehlio]

Now this is still alluded to in current codex's and army books, (chaos, B'men and lizardmen for sure) about the start of the galaxy, the massive genocidal wars between the old ones, and the C'tan star gods. Now the old ones were not fighters, they were creators. first they created the eldar to fight the ctan (read eldar codex for fluff on the wars between them and the ctan) then they created humans and orks, since the eldar could not stop them alone. The orks did then what orks do now, they fought everything and everyone, and could not be controlled in the manner the old ones wanted.
the humans of the time, manipulated by the Ctan deciever, became the necrontyr (at least some of them did) and served the Ctan.
The old ones saw that things were going poorly, their children getting uncontrollable and out of hand. so created 2 things. A haven world, and an purge. The haven world was a single world that they locked away in space and time, seeding a little bit of each life onto the world (humanity, orks, eldar...) and leaving in so the purge wouldnt affect it. The purge they created was a new life form, one that would consume even the planets themselves, and it was placed outside the known universe, far to the east...
Unknown to the old ones however, the Ctan Deciever had tricked the Nightbringer into attacking his fellow Ctan, and seriously weakening them all and causing them to fight amongst themselves.
Combined then, the children of the old ones destroyed most of the star gods, and the Purge was never unleashed. In time the old ones died, or left the material realm. However, 4 Ctan survived. The Deciever, as was always his plan, The Nightbringer, because noone could kill it (even the Eldar war god, Khala Mensha Khaine, was killed by the Nightbringer and his forces), The Red Dragon (god of machines) because he went to ground on a planet called Terra, and the Unsane, who fled to the east of the galaxy.

There the Unsane found the old ones' last, unused weapon, the Purge.
He took control over them, using his immense psychic might he enslaved them to follow his will utterly, much like his brother had when he created the Necrontyr. This unstoppable, endless galaxy, killing tide would be unleashed at last, and they were first encountered on the planet Tyran...

kk bit of fluff background lol, so all in all the nids would survive because that is what they were meant to do.
remember, they dont care how many they lose, when they take a planet, the fallen are all recycled...
So;
Imperium: only hope of Humanity is in:
A. the astronomican__bing! hive mind (The Unsane) blocks it
B. numbers_________Nids have more
Chaos: similar story, Hive Mind blocks the effects of the Ruinous Powere, and Nids have more guys
Orks: Ork spores need time to mature, and humid, warm terrain: K, like the bare lumps of rock the tyranid leave behind?
Eldar: No where near the strength now to fight off the Nids. at their peak, maybe, but not now.
Tau: not experienced enough, also their empire is too small, they couldn't survive a war of atrittion
Necrons: The Tyranids would win, after all, they were MADE to destroy the Ctan, primarily.

so there you have it. Official GW fluff combined (i apologize for any errors, its correct to best of my knowledge) to show why the Tyranids would reign supreme, Its what theyre built for!

[gamer123789]

I dont get how regular soldeiars can kill the ctans
arent the Ctans like gods

[japehlio]

well, for example, in the eldar codex it talks about the smith god, Vaul, creating 100 (well 99) blades capeable of killing Ctan... But your right, normal soldiers cannot KILL the Ctan, but their physical shell can be destroyed (eg killing the nightbringer/deciever in ttop), and then giving them no chance to restore themselves by destroying their fleet/ star harvesting machines, in essence, starving them. (in the 1st ultramarine novel, Ventris faces off against the Nightbringer and wins, by threatening to destroy its link to its ship/ in the second dawn of war novel, the Necron fleet is seen to be in close orbit to the star, harvesting energy)
old adage, when your foe goes to ground, leave no ground for it to go to...

[Consadine]

I dont get how regular soldeiars can kill the ctans
arent the Ctans like gods

I'm not completely sure, but the C'Tan models and the like are like a chaos champion. They embody the spirit and power of the god...

[Arkaedin]

@Japhelio: A few problems, minor though. The four C'Tan are The Deceiver, the Nightbringer, the Void Dragon (not red) and the Outsider (not Unsane). Also, The Outsider was imprisoned by the Laughing God, IIRC, so he couldn't have released "the Purge".

[japehlio]

sure? i am positive the outsider/unsane went east an became the hive mind... :( however im not sure if the nids were referred to by the old ones as 'the purge', iv no idea what they were called, but i do know they were intended to 'purge' the galaxy etc all.

[Arkaedin]

sure? i am positive the outsider/unsane went east an became the hive mind... :(

No I'm not, though I'm pretty sure. Besides, if that was common knowledge then there wouldn't be so many hobbyists debating about Tyranids, that theory is far too solid to have come from GW :p

[japehlio]

lol true true. ah we love a wee bit of teh ol' speculation in da mornin'...

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

Well lets just say that in the end is going to be the NECRONS they can not be destroyed in any way

Not exactly true. Caiaphas Cain does it by torching loads under extreme temperatures. I mean EXTREME. IF you get vaporised, you are not coming back from that.

[gamer123789]

wow
so they can be destroyed
What I thought was that no mattere howmuch wrecked them up their body parts would just cling back together

[scribe]

Necrons can be destroyed, of course they can. If you drive them back and stop them overcoming various worlds, you can lessen their grip on the Galaxy. If you destory their Tomb Worlds, or their existence on those Tomb Worlds, then you're taking them out for good.

[gamer123789]

so necrons might not have a chance of surviving

now....its time to turn around and vote for the nids

( sigh )

[japehlio]

YES! more support for the hive mind!

hee hee hee

[Carrelio]

I actually think that the winners will be the old ones... but not actually themselves, more their grand scheme, which I believe extends far past everything in the galaxy in some sort of all encompassing "guyz, it's K" sort of thing. here's my theory *world goes shimmery as everything goes flashbacky... but into the future*

The year is... who the hell knows... the emperor died... so everyone stopped keeping track of the years!
Within the warp something messed up is happening... with the last of the eldar dead...
Ynnead is born!
The birth of the eldar god of the dead unleashes massive warp storms which rend apart large portions of the galaxy, as the new god strides forth into the immaterium in search of slannesh.
Ynnead, slaughters all who oppose it, systematically destroying the chaos gods and reclaiming the warp.
With the warp now under complete controll, the god of the dead turns its attention to the material plain, the collective spirit of every Eldar driving it on its quest to fullfill the destiny for which their race was created.
Bursting forth from the warp along side a horde of fantom soldiers the likes of which the galaxy has never seen, Ynnead and it's immortal warriors will turn their attentions towards the necrons and the tyrannids... or something like that.

*flashback that goes into the future ends*This is where the details get hazy... but you can imagine where we're going with this.

So in the end... the only race left... is actually the race that died out first... the end!

[Drackonis]

I like how everything in the 40k universe goes back to the conflict between the Old Ones and the Necrons, and with the Old Ones being the incredibly powerful psychic race they are im inclined to agree with Carrelio that they have a grand scheme that's playing out, with the final goal being the defeat of the Necrons and calming of the Warp.

Also, about the Necrons. So far all we've seen is their initial forces, they have almost unlimited forces all throughout the galaxy and are only just starting to wake up. Its similar to the Tyranids whose main fleet is still coming; the Necrons undoubtedly have forces massively more powerful than those already seen (they would need them to beat the Old Ones) and the C'tan are only shadows of their usual strength.

When all the Necrons wake up there's not much anyone can do, except the Tyranids or some force that hasnt been seen yet. And I think the Necrons will all wake up when the C'Tan reach full strength.

@ japehlio,

Ive read a lot of stuff on the 40k universe, and know quite a bit about how it works and what the origins of it all were and yet ive never come accross the "Purge" or this "Haven World" before.

Also, its pretty much confirmed the Outsider is imprisoned in a Dyson's Sphere and didnt head off to become the Hive Mind (also something ive never seen mentioned). And, the Void Dragon appears to be on Mars (see: the Machine God)

Im not saying you're wrong, im just saying ive never seen anything like that mentioned in the 40k fluff, so could you point me in the right direction so I can check it out for myself?

[Arkaedin]

Also, its pretty much confirmed the Outsider is imprisoned in a Dyson's Sphere and didnt head off to become the Hive Mind (also something ive never seen mentioned). And, the Void Dragon appears to be on Mars (see: the Machine God)



SPOILER (sort of)

The Void Dragon IS on Mars. see: Mechanicum ;)

[Trygon]

It has been confirmed that Tyranid fleets are on a path towards the Dyson Sphere. My theory is they want to break down the Sphere and devour the Outsider in his slumber.

[japehlio]

kk i may have been wrong about the outsider, but it was "spirit of GW" courses that pointed me in that direction. The Haven world thing is very old, but in the current chaos army books it talks about the old ones coming to the planet in silver space ships... (GW deny it now, but they used to say that the fantasy world was a planet locked into the 40k universe, an GW never deny things do they? cough...squats...cough)

@ draconis and arkaeidin
void dragon was on earth, the emperor imprisoned it on mars
(vis a vis mechanicum)

[Marticus]

It has been confirmed that Tyranid fleets are on a path towards the Dyson Sphere. My theory is they want to break down the Sphere and devour the Outsider in his slumber.

why do tyranids want a vacum cleaner? ;)

[Marticus]

and also about the planet locked into the 40k world.. many moons ago chaos in fantasy could have all sorts of things like plasma pistols and such like ;)

[Carrelio]

I don't think the emperor trapped the void dragon on mars. The void dragon was retreating from the 6 black stone fortresses and the army of undying super beings, the iron knights (wraith guard), on their way by, the void dragon and his army landed on earth, killing all the dinosaurs (and you thought a comet did that!) before retreating further, to land upon mars and go into a hibernative sleep.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

The Emperor trapped the void dragon on mars. That's what happened regardless of theories and thoughts. :)

--

Any chance on a source on the Ynnead?

[Consadine]

I don't think the emperor trapped the void dragon on mars. The void dragon was retreating from the 6 black stone fortresses and the army of undying super beings, the iron knights (wraith guard), on their way by, the void dragon and his army landed on earth, killing all the dinosaurs (and you thought a comet did that!) before retreating further, to land upon mars and go into a hibernative sleep.

Where are you guys getting this stuff?

[Carrelio]

Ynnead is first mentioned in the Eldar codex, bottom of page 39

So the emperor was around during the war in heaven? I thought humanity was still just monkeys back then.
But seriously... I think the Necrons killed off the dinosaurs... because they were retreating past earth at the exact same time all the dinosaurs mysteriously died out.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

But the thing is, Mechanicum is official cannon. The void dragon probably woke up on Earth/Terra and was trapped on Mars. Looking at other sources of fluff etc, this is perfectly acceptable to me.

[ThePixelGuru]

Every time I read one of these posts I'm convinced a different race is going to win. :p I don't think there's really a way to figure out who it's going to be, but I'm going to give it a shot. :D

Races with a good chance at winning (and why):
Tyranids (numbers, evolution)
Necrons (numbers, resiliency)
Chaos (numbers, Warp power)
Orks (numbers, fightyness)

Races with "Trump Cards" (and what they are):
Eldar (Ynnead)
Humans (Star Child)
Tau (Technology)

Races with potential downfalls (and what those might be):
Necrons (Ynnead as Old Ones' weapon, Tyranids as Old Ones' weapon)
Chaos (Necrons/Tyranids/etc wiping out races with emotions)
Orks (Fight each other constantly)
Eldar (dying race)
Tau (too small)
Humans (dying Emperor)

So. Every race that doesn't currently seem to have a good shot at winning has a sort of "trump card" that might end up saving them. Potentially, the Imperium or the Eldar could have some massively powerful Warp God come in to play on their side, and they'd pretty much dominate the Milky Way after that. The Tau also have the potential to just plain out-engineer everyone, but the size of their population (and lack of Warp travel) could be a very limiting factor.

For races I listed with a good chance at winning, some of them don't actually have that great a chance. Orks just fight each other too much to dominate the galaxy. Always have, always will. Chaos is screwed if the humans and Eldar all die, since they wouldn't have any emotions to sustain themselves, and their screwed if they don't die, since the things that would save either of those races would probably kill all the Chaos Gods as their first order of business. Necrons could be in trouble since the Tyranids might have been engineered to beat them (or at least eat all life so there's nothing left for the already-starving C'tan to harvest), or they could get destroyed by Ynnead.

My guess would still be for the Tyranids, with Eldar or Humans as the possible come-from-behind victors due to the extreme power of their potential gods.

Input, anyone?

[gamer123789]

those are some good reasons

but tau could have a chance against nids
because i heard something about the atu making a weird machine that confuses tyranids and can destroy entire hive fleets or something like that

[Aenarion]

It is, I think, short-sighted to say that the Necrons or Tyranids would slaughter the other 40K races. Part of what I'd say peoples' mistake in this is that they're discounting any innovation and assuming that whilst the Tyranids can evolve and adapt the other races cannot.

Tau
These guys are very advanced technologically, and have the potential to find the perfect weapon against the Tyranids or Necrons. They are probably incapable of conquering any other 40K race on their own, because their number is too few. I imagine any race other than the Eldar and their twisted kin could crush the Tau if they focussed their efforts - but the thing that keeps the Tau alive is that because they are not much of a threat the other races don't focus their efforts. The two races to which the Tau represent perhaps the most critical threat - the Tyranids and the Necrons - are incapable of strategic and rational thought, and are therefore unlikely to act against the Tau.

Dark Eldar
The Dark Eldar have survived persistent attempts to annihilate them by the Imperium and by the Eldar proper, so I imagine they would continue to survive in much the same manner: stealth, hit and fade raids etc. I can't imagine that they'd make much of a contribution to any major war between the major galactic powers as they'd more likely prefer to persist in piracy and raiding.

Eldar
The Eldar are a dying race, certainly, and they're wise enough that I could see them sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy from a greater threat like the Tyranids, Necrons or a massive Chaos incursion. I think if they did so then they'd probably succeed in their objectives - it's easy to forget just how much the Eldar know and how powerful they are (albeit thinly spread).

Orks
The Orks are a threat but one which the Imperium has managed to contain, and there's very little reason it would suddenly be unable to continue to do the same. They'd be nightmarishly difficult to completely exterminate. Their capacity to dominate the galaxy is diminished by their constant in-fighting and limited technology.

Chaos
Chaos exists due to the emotions of psykers distorting the warp. Its great ability is its pervasiveness and its capacity to corrupt. Just because it hasn't yet been able to corrupt the Necrons or Tyranids doesn't mean it will always be unable to do so. Prior to the Horus Heresy, who would have said it could corrupt a primarch? As with the Orks though, Chaos is inherently unstable and liable to tear itself apart. In its current state it probably couldn't achieve a galactic victory, but it's entirely possible that one or more of the Chaos gods could die, or that a new one could be born. Nobody can say what the exact effects would be, but the birth of the last Chaos god came about with the destruction of an incredibly powerful and advanced civilization.

Necrons
There's no doubting the power of the Necrons, but there's certainly doubt as to their true number and the way they are controlled. It occurs to me that their numbers probably aren't as high as some people have postulated - what's evident is that they've got forces sufficient to launch raids on a planetary scale, but there's no real evidence that they have anything like the strength to take down one of the major 40K races.

Tyranids
On paper they seem the obvious victor, but I think there are three weaknesses that people are forgetting:
The way they are spread as well as their utter reliance on organic weapons means they are especially susceptible to some form of biological viral attack - plagues are a speciality of one of the Chaos gods, and the Imperium has great knowledge of biological warfare. The main hive fleet may never arrive in the 40K galaxy - we don't know that what's arrived is anything other than a scouting party, and other galaxies may be more tempting targets. The hive-mind is a centralised point of attack, and the link to the hive-mind is a prime target for Chaos corruption, Eldar psykers, Tau scientists etc.

The Imperium of Man
Listed here as the possible supreme victor overall, it should not be forgotten just how powerful the Imperium used to be. If some of that ancient technology was rediscovered then the Imperium could be nigh unstoppable. Similarly, the Star Child is a quite real hope for humanity's future. Personally I think that keeping the Emperor alive is what's ravaged the Imperium, he was supposed to die and when he does he'll be reborn as the Star Child. If that happens then there'll be a new dawn for humanity and potentially the Imperium will be unstoppable.

[Inquisitor Hanson]

I think that in the end the race that is most likely to win the galaxy will be the Necrons. The reason i think this is because only the Ctan have the technology and knowledge of how to banish chaos permenately from the material universe. It mentions in the Necron codex that they plan to seperate the material universe from the Warp effectively trapping the chaos gods in there own realm for the rest of time. Then the Ctan will get to work exterminating all life from the galaxy and converting the entire human race into Pariahs, converting them like they did with the original Necrons into a different artificial form so they serve the Ctan. Either them or the Tyranids because the entire Tyranid swarm could consist of entire galaxys worth of lifeforms that have allready been consumed by the Hive fleets making there numbers endless. Despite this and despite that the Golden Throne is slowly breaking down i still like to think that good ol human tenacity will prevail or at least keep the humans hanging on for a few more millenium.

[Inquisitor Hanson]

I forgot to add that i dont think for an instant that there will be some cheery outcome to the Warhammer 40k galaxy. The emperor wont be reborn and no new Eldar god is going to be born to reclaim the warp from the chaos gods. The old ones are completely finished, long dead, and gone for ever. I really dont know where you guys are getting your ideas from? you just seem to making fluff up to slot between the background info that is in the books. Its more than likely that Games Workship will never move the story on to the extent that they need to radically usher in another era of gameplay and fluff. But thats just my opinion.

[Dante]

I am going to go with Squats... they have been laying low for so long that they most be cooking up something big

[Inquisitor Hanson]

lol yeah right good old squats resurected from realm of the forgotten, all packing Exo armour that gives them 1+ saving throws and armed with Psychic rune weapons, if your going to go with the Squats winning in the end then im going to go with the Zoats being the final victors.

[Dante]

nahh i dont even remember them and if i dont remember them they cant win :)

[Inquisitor Hanson]

They were in rogue trader, the original warhammer 40000 sourcebook along with a load of other silly stuff, like giant clams and deadly squirrels (petra squirrels). The Zoats are even given a honourary mention in the current Tyranid Codex though you would have to know about them in the first place to notice. I still think the Zoats are going to win once they beat down the resurected Squats lol

[Dante]

cant be that hard to beat down a squat the all live very close to the earth... but cant say that i miss them in the game

[japehlio]

rending pony will destroy all!!!

[Sath]

In the end there is only one force in warhammer that will prevail...
In the end it will be the PLAYERS who win. We send entire armies to butcher the other armies and then get subsequently get butchered themselves in a repeating cycle... But then GW butchers the armies of players so what i said about players winning in the end is contradictory at best :p

But for thread purposes...

Chaos will probably have collossal success if the Emperor kicks the golden bucket (plus then he's not scoffing thousands of psyker souls a day) but this probably won't last because the Imperium will riot because there's no way for them to travel through the warp safely anymore so the number of psykers would be soon stunted.
The Orks won't give a damn and will continue as is.
The Necrons will think "oh good, now the Humans are vulnerable, lets have at them!" in a swashbuckler accent.
The Eldar will say "I told you so"
The Tau will keep inventing new stuff and become some sort of hyper-efficient empire but in a twist the Ethereals are actually very evil people in disguise, Commander Farsight being 1 of the few who really knows whats going on, goes on to make his own movie, biography and republic hell bent on overthrowing the Ethereal menace AND fend off the Tyranids & Orks. (all in a days work for a Tau who is killer in close combat)
The Tyranids will just keep eating and eating and eating, adapting to the other race's attempts to counter them with bio-agents and such, biomass leftover from the Imperium helping to ice itself will cause them to swell in numbers.
Dark Eldar will kill themselves through their murderous sports and ways
Squats rise from the ashes in a Terminator fashion and become the new Imperium
Zoats come back in their Futurama Decapodian (Dr Zoidberg) Mobile Oppression Palace ships but a cruel twist of fate, the GW gods take notice of the Zoats' return and once again banish them to the edges of the multiverse.
:D

[Zoidberg]

Zoats come back in their Futurama Decapodian (Dr Zoidberg) Mobile Oppression Palace ships
:D

Oi! I get a mention! This makes me so happy with the notoriety and the respect and the. . . now where'd I put that sandwhich?

[Scoppio]

The humans wins... they are the only one with planet obliteration technology... in the end, if there is nothing more to save the human kind then the inquisition will declare that the entire galaxy must be purged and every single planet will be exterminated except by Terra and one or two others... Also... the humans ALWAYS win in the end cuz they/we are more parasitic then the NID's...

[Inquisitor Hanson]

Great that makes perfect sense in terms of final victory, lets face it the human are fudged but just because they are it doesnt mean there going to disapear silently into the night without some collosal fight, the imperium may be old and technologically unprogressive but they can still give any race/force in the warhammer 40000 universe a run for there money. When the Emperor finally kicks the bucket the Imperium is going to be broken up but things will go back to the way they were before he came along in the first place albeit with many more enemies like the Necrons and Tyranids still knocking around.

[Carrelio]

I still have big money on some mysterious creation of the old ones dealing the final blow! I have no doubt that the old ones have the whole future planned out, wiping out the necron threat and calming the warp (Ironically... this sounds alot like the tyranids...). It might not be here yet... but it's coming.

[The Vulture]

I still have big money on some mysterious creation of the old ones dealing the final blow! I have no doubt that the old ones have the whole future planned out, wiping out the necron threat and calming the warp (Ironically... this sounds alot like the tyranids...). It might not be here yet... but it's coming.

Are you expecting me to believe that the Old Ones have left an "ace in the hole" for the end of times? Not for when they were alive to care?

[Drackonis]

I don't think a hidden creation of the Old Ones is going to suddenly appear, but its a good bet they predicted and planned for their downfall and the eventual defeat of the Necrons and the calming of the Warp.

Examining the facts:

The Old Ones predicted the fall of the Eldar (showing they can predict events far into the future).

The Eldar can predict the future (using their psychic abilities).

The Old Ones are/were the most powerful psychic beings in the universe, they would undoubtedly have been able to predict the future to a much higher degree than the Eldar (as evidenced by their predicting the fall of the Eldar).

The Old Ones, knowing the future, would have known what would happen and so would have set in motion events that would eventually lead to the defeat of their enemies (no doubt because it will/has taken a very long period of time for the forces they set in motion - the races they created, etc - to develop and reach a stage where they can succeed).


Anyway, thats how I predict the Old One's will have acted.


@ Scoppio;

Actually, almost every race has the ability to destroy planets (if a technologically backwards race like the humans can destroy planets, then the races that are far more advanced will be able to easily - and, of course, the Tyranids just consume everything, making a habitable planet a rock.)

The Orks are maybe the only ones that don't... Because they don't have the technological aptitude (although I'm sure they could whip something up if they had to, or steal it).

[Scoppio]

To be honest with you, I dont think that any of these wars will someday ends... one or another race may even disappear, but will always be someone close to be declared as enemy/heretic/etc...

Maybe, and just maybe, the chaos will prevail... just because there isnt such thing that can "obliterate" the chaos and its demons... the "material universe" can reach the chaos throught the warp breachs, but once its opened, an infinite number of demons will appear, and it can be in anytime, anyplace... I dont know exatly how the Emperor may be "restricting" the warp holes, but when the restrictions goes off, things may get really thought... who knows if they cant just "turn" the chaos in the universe, by openning the entire chaos plane in the material one... couldn't it be done?

Theres no way to even try to think about what will happen in the future... the only thing that can "lead to a certain future" is a great campaing, where people using different armies have a galaxy map, and use it as a "galaxy domination campaing"... would be cool....

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

The Orks are maybe the only ones that don't... Because they don't have the technological aptitude (although I'm sure they could whip something up if they had to, or steal it).

Page 162 and 163 of the BRB, there is a planet being blown up by orks! :D

[KaizerVonAwesome]

So who ends up winning eh?

Humans will survive. It's what we do best... if nothing else.

Orks too.

And Necrons.

Everything else can be killed.

[gamer123789]

well we just have to wait on what the fans vote for




no...........really we should make a poll out of this
itbe a good topic

[ThePixelGuru]

Aenarion - I don't think that any ultimate weapon against the Tyranids would last. Imperial biological weapons have been deployed and wiped out huge numbers of 'nids only to be completely useless the next time. I imagine Nurgle would have a better chance, but it wouldn't be a single solution, rather a constantly evolving set of plagues. I think the chances of that are pretty slim, though. As for the Tau making some superweapon, I think the same sort of evolution applies. If it works really well once, I wouldn't necessarily expect it to work so well the next time. Tyranid evolution isn't foolproof, but it's faster than anyone else develops, that's for sure.

Attacking the Hive Mind would be very difficult, too - if it's a distinct thing rather than a gestalt total of all 'nid consciousness, it's probably several galaxies away. Even the Astronomican can't reach all the way across the Milky Way, so it's pretty unlikely that any psyker would be able to reach that far, nevermind having enough psychic power left at that point to actually hurt what's probably the most powerful psyker ever (save maybe the Emperor himself). It's really reaching to think that any race will be able to even get at the Hive Mind, nevermind hurt it.

I also don't think the Eldar would really sacrifice themselves. Everything they do is a struggle for survival, and they haven't shown any indication of caring what happens to any other race. They routinely wipe out entire colonies of helpless farmers because they accidentally ended up on an empty Maiden World. If they'll kill innocent people for being on the wrong planet without even giving them a warning, I think it's highly unlikely that they'd sacrifice their entire race to save those same people.

As for the numbers of Necrons, it's quite possible that almost every planet is a Tomb World. They're certainly waking up at an astounding rate. Their fleets also routinely annihilate Imperial fleets. They were strong enough to almost purge the galaxy of life before they went to sleep, and they had the Old Ones to contend with then - why would they be any weaker this time around?

My money would still be on the Tyranids, second guess would be the Necrons, but the Eldar's God of Death, Ynnead, and the Star Child could each be game-changers.

[Carrelio]

So I've been thinking... from a game history perspective and this is what I see. Every race at some point gets its turn to rule the stars. First it was the Necrons, then it was the Eldar, then it was Humanity, so who is the next race set to rise and reign for 40000 years? I'd say it's Tau. So if games workshop were to extend their story out in the same: rule... fall... rule... fall... scheme that they have been doing for the other races, then Tau should arrive to rise to the occasion just intime to take over where the last empire left off (that would be humans at the actual death of the emperor... where they lose the whole warp travel guiding light... and they are all seperated... and they all get owned by every enemy).

Of course... from fluff perspective... the Tau are going to need to do alot of developing (maybe get their own god emperor... Farsight...? Nah!) before they get anywhere in the galactic scale.

This has been my thought for the day.

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

Id normally agree with you considering hte rises and falls of previous super powers like necrons and eldar but theres one circumstance that botherss me most.Where and when the next hive fleet will arrive and by the looks of things It seems the Tau empire seems to be the main target of choice considering all previous advanced arrived pretty much from the east and south east of its empire reaking havok.:(

[Carrelio]

When humanity started its quest into the stars it was only a speck in a sea of enemies (sure those enemies wern't as focused as the nids... but humanity wern't as focused as Tau), and they still prevailed in creating an empire that stood for 40000 years.

[akiel"the conqueror"smith]

Yeah but lets not forget that The major numbers of nids have yet to be known and I wouldnt be surprised if Tau tetters on the brink as they fight as savagely as possible against an overwhelming enemy that simply wont go down by normal means.Thats why i cant simply throw my complete support behind your theory.

Besides humanity had the emperor to unite humanity and wage a war across the stars.Then horus happend and that left us devistated.Give me a tauish form of the emperor and MAYBE ill beleive this little theory of yours carellio.;)