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Elessar 2
23-09-2008, 10:34 AM
Hello everyone,

I have been playing a few games with a friend of mine (who has skaven), and every time, I lost and didn't even stand a chance.

he uses:
1 Plague Priest @ 124 Pts
General; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; bands of power; warpstone amulet
1 Warlock Engineer @ 130 Pts
Magic Level 1; Upgraded Warp-Energy Condenser; Warp Blades; Warplock Pistol; #1 Warpstone Token; Storm Daemon; Warpstone Charm
1 Chieftain @ 149 Pts
Heavy Armour; Battle Standard Storm Banner [75]
1 Warp-lightning Warp Cannon @ 100 Pts
19 Plague Monks @ 220 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Standard; Musician; Umbranner; 1 Plague Deacon @ 10 Pts
2 Rat Ogres @ 100 Pts
2 Rat Ogre Packmasters @ [0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour
20 Clanrats @ 115 Pts
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
6 Giant Rat Pack @ 30 Pts
1 Packmasters @ [0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour
20 Clanrat Slaves @ 40 Pts

And I used:

Lych priest @ 160 Pts
Hierophant, Hieratic jar, cloak of the dunes
Tomb prince @ 194 Pts
Chariot, Light armour, shield, golden ankhra
3 skeleton chariots @ 120 Pts
10 skeleton warriors @ 90 Pts
Light armour
10 skeleton warriors @ 90 Pts
Light armour
11 skeleton warriors @ 128 Pts
Champion, standard
Screaming skull catapult @ 110 Pts
Skulls of the Foe
8 Skeleton light horsemen @ 112 Pts

Now; before you say anything, I know skeleton horsemen are bad, but I had nothing else when I fought these battles. These can now be swithced for another 3 chariots when needed.

This is all I have at the moment, but I am planning to get some ushabti (about 5), a tomb scorpion, and a few carrion (about 4-6).

Do you have any tips on how to change the army? (there is a 1% extra allowed, so 1010 points max)

Also, do you have any tactic tips? I deployed everything in one big line, and shot and retreat until they were close. I used my lych priest to allow 2 shots for my screaming skull catapult, and my prince was in the chariot unit and let them shoot twice (until they broke the rat ogres with shooting, and trying to charge them while they were running, but this was dispelled).
my screaming skull tried to silence his warp lightning cannon, to make sure it couldn't shoot my priest, but when there was only 1 crewmember alive, a shot from it killed my priest, dooming me.

Any tactics, tips or army-changing advice is welcome!

Cheers
Tom

Jasfmpgh
23-09-2008, 06:33 PM
Hi Ele, seems like your opponent has a pretty strong list there, the plague priest leading the plague monks looks especially bad.

Now, here is what I'm thinking.
Take the tomb prince out of the chariot, its just to easy of a target for the warlock cannon that way. Next, lets drop that screaming skull catapult.. his storm banner just makes it to hard to use effectively, we'll also drop the light horsemen as you suggested.

I think what your going to need to do is concentrate on shooting his storm banner doesn't disrupt, which would be magic attacks and your bowmen. (The blessing makes you always hit on a 5+, rain or shine :) ) In a tombking army its always a good idea to group your bowmen into large groups, that way when you use a incantation to make them shoot again you get more shots. I think two groups of 20 with Champions and Standards would do nicely, I dropped the light armor on them so you could afford more.

On to the character section of the army. For your tomb prince you may want to look at the magic item called the Amulet of Pah-stah. It negates all enemy Talisman and enchanted items while in base to base with you, which should totally nullify the little combo your friend is trying to use, from there you can either give him a shield and light armor or a flail. Now your tomb prince should be more than a match for that plague priest. (Remember to heal him if he gets into trouble) For your Hierophant, I took of his cloak of the dunes. Your best bet for keeping him safe from that warplighting is to hide him in a big unit of skeletons and just use the "look out sir!" rule to have it hit regular guys not him. Finally I added another liche priest, and equipped him with the staff of ravening, the extra dispel die should really come and handy, not to mention another spell and a bound item. (3d6 strength 2 hits can do a suprising amount of damage to unarmored guys. For fun try using it on the rat orges, which it wil still wound on a six.. but if you get lucky you might take out all of the taskmasters.. which is even better:) ) I would have this priest also join a unit of skeletons.

For a final addition, I'd hurry up and finish that tomb scorp.. you'll find them very useful. You'll want to use the "It came from below" roll to allow them to deep strike into the fight.. and since they can charge the turn they show up, its prefect for killing off that annoying warplighting cannon, or assassinating the warlock engineer or even the battle standard bearer.. it would problaly be more than a match for the slaves, giant rat packs, and would even give the rat orges a tough fight..

So, even with these changes your going to keep the same kind of strat you were using.. with a long line of skeleton archers (Now in just two units) and a unit of chariots in the middle, slowly backing away and shooting like crazy. Hopefully the tomb scorp will pop up and cause some trouble, and your shooting will scare off or destroy the smaller skaven units and maybe even drop the number of skaven in the bigger groups to something less than 20. Now the most important thing to remember is, right when he is about to reach your archers, you are going to need to reform them into blocks (5x4) so that they can take the enemy charge and still hold. It would also be good if your Liche priests got out of the units and to safety at that point. Then hopefully your two units will hold against his two units and your chariots can move around and get a flank charge, or your tomb princes unit will get lucky and win a round vs. the plague monks and break them. You should have the advantage though because your guys will be getting extra rounds of attacks and comming back to life.. while his will be looking sad and dying. :)

Sorry this ended up so long.. let me know what you think

Elessar 2
30-09-2008, 01:25 PM
Thanks Jasfmpgh!

I will try to order the scorp some day soon.
I will also try the rest of the army soon.

And when I shoot with my magic and skele archers, do I shoot at storm banner itself, or something else (since it does disrupt his own warplightning cannon)?

But what bothers me most, is that even though my men shoot very good (normally 2/6 of the arrows should hit, my average is about 3,5/6 hits) I don't stand a chance (i made the smaller groups run, but the 20 model units were still very much intact.

Again, thanks a lot for your advice!

Tom

Your Conscience
30-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Isnt tis army illegal for the skaven player because to have more units of rat ogres doesnt he need to have more units of clan rats as they are te main stay unit of the army and it is in the rules saying that to have more of other uits you need to have more clan rats. Don't quote me on tis cos i might be wrong so wait for farskit or something like that. Also in a one on one fight skaven will usually win so therefore try to concentrate your fireon reducing the ranks so that leadership goes down and also i tihnk t win you would have to hold the charge (easy wit undead) with one of yor units and then flank charge them with the light horseman so that the lose there rank bonuses

Elessar 2
30-09-2008, 06:45 PM
well, he has a single unit of clanrats, and a single unit of rat ogres with packmasters, so it should be legal.

He had one hero join the unit, so I would have to kill 3 models to get the unit to panic tests (which i succeeded in, after wounding both rat ogres twice.

Tom

Jasfmpgh
30-09-2008, 08:37 PM
The storm banner doesn't need to be your first target. With your new lists it doesn't even slow you down :). As to how your shooting will go. If your friend comes at your very agressively you'll probalaly only get two turns of shooting before you'll need to reform into fighting ranks. So you should shoot at his Clanrat unit unit you cause 25% losses in the phase, then switch to the rat ogres or giant rats. Then in the magic phase do it again, making him make a second panic test. I'd use your staff of ravening on the rat ogres. I wouldn't use your shooting on the plague monks or the slaves til you panic the clanrats and rat orges. (The high toughness and +4 ward save makes it a long shot.)

Its going to take about 6 archers to kill each skaven, so you should be able to get about 13 or so a round.. enough to get the panic checks going left and right.

Please let me know how all this turns out, I had a lot of fun trying to puzzle something out.. and I'd like to know if it works.

Your Conscience
30-09-2008, 08:38 PM
Yeah sorry i read the army list wrong all u have to do is get a cheap unit of like 5 skeleton horses and just get them to divert the charges or places them at an angle and just out of range and they might try and charge and then justkeep doing thsat