Bolt gun vs storm bolter fluff...

[Righteous Carnage]

Can anyone explain the fluff behind the storm bolter, which makes it more versatile than the humble storm bolter?

As I understand it, the storm bolter is basically 2 bolt guns fitted together with a single butt and trigger. So, I guess, it is almost twice as heavy as a bolter, and so also more cumbersome.

However, while you can shoot the bolter once up to full range if you remain stationary, you can shoot the SB twice up to full range whilst on the move.

Also, when charging into combat, you must ditch the bolter and draw a pistol to get a shot off. But you can shoot a SB twice while charging.:confused:

Is the SB made from extra lightweight material?
Have I been thinking too deeply about this?:cheers::cheers::lol:

[coulsono]

You must remember that it's really 1.5 bolters put together. If you look at pictures, you can notice other weight reductions, such as there is no grips. Yes, the gun would still weigh a lot (lots of that weight coming from double ammo), but remember that we are talking about Space Marines (Or in the IG codex Yarric but same applies to him) they are amazingly strong to the point where such weapons barely weigh anything to them. The reason that the stormbolter is so much easier to shoot than the regular bolter is because it is more spray and prey, the user raises it and pulls the trigger and two shots fly down range, chances are that one is going to hit in that general direction he is firing. Also remember that the stormbolter requires use of one hand only, the bolter is generally used by two, which is why it is more viable for combat, you don't have to worry about drawing anything or changing weapons, you already have your weapons in hand so you can just charge. I could elaborate but i think you get the picture, spray and prey one handed from a beast of a man!

[Alasdhair]

It's mostly because your lot has got soft in the last 10,000 years and needs a nice, soft, friendly gun ;) Combi-bolters on the other hand, those are for real men =P None of this 1.5 nonsense, just two bolters stuck together!

[VolatilSpam]

The Storm Bolter, as its name suggests, unleashes a storm of bolts upon the hapless target. Where a single boltgun might fire shots one or two at a time and be limited to 16 or 20 rounds (depending on sickle or straight magazine), a Storm Bolter carries a larger magazine and has correspondingly faster rate of fire. Standard dual-sickle magazine, according to Chaos Gate, holds fifty rounds (25 per barrel). Many Storm Bolters replace those for box or drum rounds, raising the capacity to what I would estimate as between eighty and one hundred bolts, Kantor's storm bolter (Dorn's Arrow) is a belt-fed weapon, meaning Emperor only knows how many shots he can burn through before worrying about ammo. With all that additional firepower, fire discipline becomes less important. Thus, more shots at long range, and the ability to keep firing even as you charge into battle.

[Alexei]

Also, old GK models (fluff too, I think) was that they used belt-feeded ammo on the storm bolters, directly from their backs so there was no need to stop and change the the magazine either.

[Gideon_Not_Ravenor]

LExicanum's article here (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Storm_bolter#.T1-Qz_WFCnc).

If I were a Primarch I'd think what's better than one bolter? Two bolters! So you join two together. The stormbolter is probably the pinnaccle of bolters altogether; as it compensates for the lack of manouvreability and it also doesn't have the two ammo source problem and unites them as one.

The rules don't really reflect it's nature as far as I'm concerned. I would expect marines to rarely draw their side arms (I mean hey you've got a bolter) and just smack people upside the head with their bolters along with the usual fists and knives.

[Eternus]

Twin linked, and then afterwards Storm Bolters were originally put together to be carried by Terminators, as was the Heavy Flamer if I remember rightly. Terminator Armour in turn was designed for close quarters combat in confined spaces like space craft and crampt urban areas. I echo what has been said already - Storm Bolters are all about rate of fire, saturating the target area with armour piercing hi ex rounds. Maneouverability didn't matter, because in a crampt corridor there is what's behind you, which is hopefully your unit, and what's in front, which is hopefully the enemy.

Overall, you'll find that the humble Bolter is easier to manufactur and maintain, as well as being more versatile, where as the Storm Bolter is altogether, well, 'more', but takes more maintenance and is harder to produce, but is also a status symbol, so not just anyone will be carrying one.

[Captain Kellen]

The rules don't really reflect it's nature as far as I'm concerned. I would expect marines to rarely draw their side arms (I mean hey you've got a bolter) and just smack people upside the head with their bolters along with the usual fists and knives.


I'm with you on this... I have often wondered this...

A chain sword use to be strength 4 and the bolt pist strength four and if you were armed with both you got two close combat attacks. You also mightl arm yourself for close combat without ranged weapons to get the two CC attacks. Yet, a typical, everyday, straight out of the bottle marine is strength 4 and has two fists to pummel his opponent but gets only one attack?

... things from the corner that make you go... Hmmmmm....

CK

[coulsono]

A little off topic, but I too have wondered about why a chain sword, with razor-sharp teeth spinning around at extremely fast speeds swung by a super human does as much damage as a regular punch by them... Oh GW will we ever know??

[Eternus]

The real bonus of the Chainsword comes from the extra attack when combined with another versatile and efficient close combat weapon, i.e. it gives the potential to cause twice as much damage, by virtue of the fact that it is a more efficient weapon than a fist.

[GroxGlitch]

A little off topic, but I too have wondered about why a chain sword, with razor-sharp teeth spinning around at extremely fast speeds swung by a super human does as much damage as a regular punch by them... Oh GW will we ever know??

Let's consider that your humble Lasgun strikes with force approximately equivalent to a fifty caliber armor piercing round as a modern equivalent, and this barely registers to an ork when shot...I don't care how strong a Space Marine is, if getting shot with that does nothing, your fist is going to do radically less didly.
Also, bolters.

[VolatilSpam]

I always assumed that for regular swings in combat they're using monomolecular combat knives - these knives just don't properly count as a CCW there because they're defensive weapons rather than offensive. Scouts, on the other hand, have combat swords - the things are as long as a Marine's arm, so they count as real weapons. Chainswords, of course, also count as CCWs. But the delineation seems to be between "I would draw this and charge you" versus "I would prefer to draw this only if you charged me." Same goes for chainsword vs bayonet. I mean, Guardsmen don't have a choice - when they get ordered to charge, they do - but there's a big diff between a combat knife and a chainsword, and that difference is reflected in the +1 attack for sword/pistol or sword/sword.

[Aun O Vader]

Ok, I see what's being said here, but you seem to be comparing apples and oranges. Bolters are the automatic cannons of the 40k universe, self-propelled ammunition (only just being developed for small calibre's, not a lot to compare to) and basically the biggest possible gun you can carry, with a resaonably high rate of fire.

Now consider the combi-bolter, this was the next stage, in order to reduce the requirement to reload whilst firing during boarding operations the combi-bolter involved welding two guns together, this would allow you to reload one whilst firing the other, hence twin-linked, it's not that it's more accurate, its that you can maintain a higher rate of fire because you don't need to worry about running out of ammo mid-firefight.

Next the storm bolter, imagine the difference between an Oerlikon 20mm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon) and an M197 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M197_Gatling_gun). Instead of having two disparate guns welded together the stormbolter is a fully functional double barrelled weapon, it is built that way from the design process up. Also consider almost every type of unit using stormbolters are super-human in some way, we're talking a seriously heavy gun! Therefore you have more ammunition to blaze away, especially if you have the belt-fed or drum-fed versions allowing you to maintain a high rate of fire whilst on the move, with a standard bolter you have to be slightly more frugal which means you need to aim carefully when shooting so you can maintain a reasonable rate of fire at close range but you need to be more careful at long range.

And for those who are thinking about disagreeing about my supposition of the M197 as a stormbolter and not an assault cannon, I present unto you, the M61 Vulcan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan]M61 Vulcan).

Darn, I'm sorry i didn't get around to finishing my guide to weapons of the 41st millennium.

[Skringly]

And for those who are thinking about disagreeing about my supposition of the M197 as a stormbolter and not an assault cannon, I present unto you, the M61 Vulcan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan]M61 Vulcan).

I see your M61 Vulcan sir and raise you a GAU-8 Avenger. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger) :grin:

[Aun O Vader]

I see your M61 Vulcan sir and raise you a GAU-8 Avenger. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger) :grin:

I agree, although apples and oranges once again, all 3 examples I used were 20mm so the same calibre, but I agree in principle, the GAU-8 is probably more akin to the assault cannon simply because it uses larger ammunition.

[Skringly]

True, considering that the Assault Cannon seems to change in size here and there. For example the Dreadnought assault cannon is significantly larger than the Terminator assault cannon model wise. And we could always like the Gau-8 to the Vulcan mega bolter than we see on some super heavies.

[VolatilSpam]

I don't think the VMB really has a real-world equivalent. It's too big. It's like if you took ten 75mm cannons (that would be the midsize gun on an AC-130 gunship) and stuck them together in two sets of five.

[VolatilSpam]

[edit] Also, storm bolters used to be usable by Guard sergeants, and are now usable by regular Warrior acolytes.

[Aun O Vader]

Agreed, I wasn't really trying to say that the stormbolter could be considered the size of M197. But more the design principle could be applied. It's not 2 guns welded together, it's a single gun, a single unit, just more capable, the sum, as it were, is greater than it's original components.

or to put it mathematically, rather than philisophically;

stormbolter>2 bolters (on the same guy).

[coulsono]

Wait a sec, you are saying that the VMB which is strength six is the same as a 75mm cannon's strength? But you say the GAU-8 Avenger is a strength 6 weapon as well? That is a 45mm increase! Over double the size, almost triple for one AP lower. I say that the assault cannon would be more like the GAU-12 Equalizer, and the VMB would be the GAU-8 Avenger. The 12 usually fires at 3600 rounds per minute as a regularly mounted on aircraft, but on the AC-130 where they need to conserve ammo it is limited to 1800 per minute. While the GAU-8 fires at 4200 rounds per minute. This would describe the difference between the assault cannon and VMB. The 12 fires regular 25mm rounds while the 8 fires 30mm depleted uranium rounds, or the AP difference.

The reason the VMB would be able to fire more rounds, is that it has quite a bit more room where it is mounted usually, while the assault cannon would be better off in short bursts as needed.

I think these two are a lot more similar than the GAU-12 and 10 75mm cannons haha

my two cents! :skrall:

[VolatilSpam]

I was going by actual fluff size and by model size, not by weapon stats.