Faith; power source of the righteous

[Emperors_mercy]

Brothers,

While meditating upon our glorious Imperial Creed I dwelt upon the idea of Faith. Faith in the almighty God Emperor of Man allows one to achieve incredible acts and even manifest miracles. The power that comes from faith is imparted by The Master of Mankind surely?

If this is the case, where does The Master of Mankind receive his power? Is it inherent to his holy being, or like the psyker, does it come from the Immaterium?

(The Emperor is the reincarnation of the shamans of prehistoric Earth, this is where his abilities and power comes from but from whence did the shamans draw their power? Did they draw it from the warp?

If that is the case then, does that in fact mean that that power of faith is the very same damn thing that psykers and the unholy take from the most foul of places, the Warp? Wouldn't that be a lovely conundrum for the monodominant? :grin: )

I would appreciate your wisdom brothers.

[Lord Krull]

The Warp isn't necessarily evil though, it just so happens that the dominant energies are things like hate, rage, pain and fear because that's how most people die. It could just as easily provide energy from love, joy and compassion if they were stronger felt. The Emperor draws his power from the Warp yes, but that doesn't mean it is nasty Chaos power.

(though Im certainly no Imperium expert, so someone may correct me on the source of his power)

[Alexei]

I think it's easier, the Emperor gets his power (nowadays at least) from the sheer amount of believers who pray to him, and really believe in him as a god. He doesn't draw Warp power from hate, rage and all that...

When he was alive he just channeled as every living psyker does, although on a greater (epic) level

[Silent_P]

I thought the Emperor's power came from the thousands of psykers who are sacrificed in the Golden Throne on a daily basis.

[Alexei]

I thought the Emperor's power came from the thousands of psykers who are sacrificed in the Golden Throne on a daily basis.

I read that was his diet, so he didn't die, not the source of his power. Apparently, fresh roasted psyker keeps you alive.

[VolatilSpam]

I read that was his diet, so he didn't die, not the source of his power. Apparently, fresh roasted psyker keeps you alive.

I always figured it was some of both. The Emperor's power is constantly being siphoned off to aid the faithful, or bleeding from his withered form into the Warp, so the psykers' essences refresh his reserves so that he can continue to light the Astronomican and provide succor to His people.

[Emperors_mercy]

I hear what you are saying Lord Krull, however in universe and particularly according to the Imperial Creed the Warp is the home of abominations and the four greatest enemies of the God Emperor: The Chaos Gods. The touch of that dimensions beings is corrupting and malignant. Even the energies of that dimension are anathema to lifeforms of the materium (for example in Dark Heresy merely being exposed to energy from the warp may grant corruption points).

Out of game we could well say: "Evil is subjective, who says anything is evil, etc" however in game evil is that which harms humanity, diverges from the Imperial Creed or shuns the God Emperor of Mankind. In this case the present warp is most definitely evil even if it was calm and neutral during the time of the God Emperor's youth.

However the point about psychic energy you made is a very good one. If the warp is supposedly evil then the energy it produces should be evil too. Psykers, astropaths and navigators must all be evil too since they use evil energy and the God Emperor, the greatest psyker to ever exist is therefore the greatest evil! That doesn't work out very well for our beloved dogma so it can't be right. This leads me to agree with you about the warp itself not being evil (oh what a heretic I hath become).

So it seems to me that energy drawn from the warp is neutral in character, the dimension itself does not have a personality or the "evil" domain descriptor but rather simply exists. The problem is that the denizens of the warp, at least from the sources given to us by GW, are utterly hostile to life from the material world and using energy from their dimension attracts their foul attention.

I would really like to hear more about this from some Chaos players and get their take on the Warp.

[Eternus]

The Warp, The Immaterium, the Empyrean or whatever else you want to call it is energy, plain and simple. It is however responsive to the emotions of living beings, and it these emotions which give it form and allow it to form elements of conciousness. The energy itself is neither good nor evil, it isn't even neutral, because that implies that it has a state of it's own at all, which it doesn't. It's state is determined purely by the thoughts and emotions of living beings, and it the essence of those emotions, and their relative strength, which determines the form that the energy takes. Powerful and malicious emotions like rage and fear give rise to Daemons, but focussed constructive energy like that represented by the Emperor give rise to something else, which is what the Emperor's manifest power really is. Psykers like the Emperor control the energy, bend it to their will, where as uncontrolled unleashed energy is Chaos in it's purest form.

A simple way to describe the Warp would be like the river of slime in the second Ghost Busters film. It can absorb negative emotions and give rise to nastiness, or it can absorb positive energy and be used to animate the Statue of Liberty who then kicks some Chaos butt, but the slime is still just slime without a source of emotion to drive it.

[Lord Krull]

Precisely, Eternus.

There is no subjectivity about it, that's not the point.

[CPA]

wow, this is interesting to read. Thanks for bringing up this thread :grin:

[Emperors_mercy]

Greetings Citizens,

The heretic's broken corpse now lies at my feet, The Master of Mankind's will done.

Let this exchange be a warning to all those who peddle the heretical line: "Understand your enemy that you may defeat him". A loyal and pure imperial servant allowed his quest for knowledge get the better of him and in the process encountered the malevolent forces of Chaos. Instead of holding true to the Imperial Creed and casting out the foul servants of Chaos, he sought from them answers. This fatal mistake allowed the demon and the heretic to fill his mind with lies, blasphemy and madness! All a loyal servant of the God Emperor needs to know is that Chaos must be destroyed in all its aspects and disguises. All a loyal servant requires in his mind is absolute faith in Him on Earth.

Signed
Inquisitor Bob

+Thought for the Day: An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded+