Grey knights

[Lightmass]

I've been looking into the grey knights a lot recently. And if they really do use gene-seed from the emperor. Shouldn't they be the most kick ass chapter of space marines out there? Or are they just everything they do is a secret? Any info you guys have on chapter 666 would be awesome.

Sincerely,
Lightmass

[Consadine]

Boom. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grey_Knights#.TpUCRJz_I5E)

[Lightmass]

Yes. I've read it. Anything not in there? Or is that everything everyone knows about them?

[Emperors_mercy]

The chapter and all of its deeds are a secret. That is part of the reason why they have that nasty tendency to kill their erstwhile allies in tabletop once all the demons are gone. Another important thing to remember is that they are not an independent chapter they are part of the Ordo Malleus and work at their whim.

[kharn the betrayer]

They kinda work at their whim, but they do have their own agenda and have been know to santion Inquisitors slighty dead when there is evidence of working against the Emperors whill.

I find the whole Grey Knights background facinating and if you goole it you can find lots of background from fan written stuff to long forgotten GW fluff.

Did you know there was an inner level within the Grey Knights that have black painted armour, look it up.

So working with the Inquisition of course, working for them not really.

[Alexei]

I've been looking into the grey knights a lot recently. And if they really do use gene-seed from the emperor. Shouldn't they be the most kick ass chapter of space marines out there? Or are they just everything they do is a secret? Any info you guys have on chapter 666 would be awesome.

Sincerely,
Lightmass
Yes, yes they are. They are also so "kick-ass" that they Exterminatus entire planets to keep their existence a secret.

[Rider]

They don't share Geneseed with the Emperor, because the Emperor wasn't genetically engineered and so does not have Geneseed. At least, that's what I think. The best theory I've read so far is that their Geneseed is a combination of the Geneseeds of all the remaining loyal chapters, and even then only the very best bits.

[Ossai]

IIRC the current theory on their formation is that they were the surviving members of the Eisenstein that made it back to the Emperor to warn him of Horus' betrayal.

[Lightmass]

Why couldn't you take gene-seed from the emperor? Back then did they have the technology to just make the stuff?

[japehlio]

Its a sort of "grey area" regarding the Emperor/Gene Seed, since the Emperor, when he was creating the Primarchs, engineered them from his own genetic material, and the Gene Seeds for the Legions were in turn engineered from the DNA of the Primarchs. Hence we have Emperor -> Clone -> G.Seed, a regular Marine is directly linked to his Primarch, and one step away from the Emperor.
Since we dont even know if the GK had a Primarch (remember there are two unnamed/unmentioned ones that were destroyed very early on, but their genetic material mightn't have been...) or who it might have been if they did, it is entirely plausible that the surviving Primarchs decided to re-use the Gene Seed creation process using the Emperors DNA once he was on the Golden Throne, but since they didnt have anything like the expertise He had, the resultant "product" was not on a par with the Primarchs, despite also being from the Emperors own genetic material.

my 2 cents anyway...

[Lightmass]

Speaking of gene-seed. How do space marine chapters get it now? It can't ALL be recycled from the fallen. Do they have big gene-seed storage facility's somewhere?

[MMsEldar]

Yeah I'm pretty sure each chapter keeps a secret vault or something similar for their geneseed stores.

Most will keep it at their home planet, say in the depths of Macragge for Ultramarines, but chapters like the Blood Ravens will keep theirs on their battle barges, since they lack a home planet.

Now whether this is a limited supply or not, I don't know

[kharn the betrayer]

There have to send a percentage of their geneseed to Terra and most chapters have at least two other stores of the stuff hidden.

Its the future of their chapter so they want to be sure they dont loose any. Remember every marine who dies or reaches a certain age produces two viable implants.

So they double the implants with every marine. Also the ones sent to terra are tested for genetic defects. Thats how some of the chapters turn rogue because they dont send the tithe.

[Honsou]

Oooh, ooh, a chance to live up to my loremaster role :grin:

Consadine has given you a good link to lexicanum there- that does summarize the vast majority of information that is readily available. Do remember, however, that as is often the case with sources this diverse that alot of it has been subjected to somewhat circular logic to "make it fit", and still more is conjecture and guesstimation.

There have been a few different stories relating to the foundation of the Grey Knights over the years. The currently prevailing one suggests that the Grey Knights were formed entirely from 'pre-existing' sources. That is to say they were formed from the already functioning space marines- the 'initial' (they were not, in fact, the first but that is another argument entirely) 8 were drawn from the survivors of the Eisenstein after the Drop Site Massacre at Istvaan III. Additional 'recruits' were drawn from worlds around the Imperium as well as being picked in secret from Astartes Legions loyal to the emperor during the heresy.

As to the Emperor: to the best of my knowledge there is no source that actually definitively proves that they are using gene-seed that was taken directly from the Emperor. There are a few things that would support this: first, the Emperor was not a space marine, thus he is not biologically the same as a space marine- most likely then, he lacks gene-seed. Remember here also, that to create the Primarchs, from whom the gene-seed for their legions was taken, great efforts were expended!

Furthermore, the initial membership of the chapter (and not just the 8 survivors, but also the many loyalists and raw recruits) was drawn from all across the Imperium and from the many legions- these would not have had anything to do with the Emperor's "gene-seed." Indeed, quite to the contrary: they would have been actually producing (Space Marines not only have the gene-seed that they were implanted with, but also produce further gene-seed as an internal biological process) the gene-seed relevant to their own legions. Obviously this provides us with a complicated situation in that the gene-seed of multiple origins would need to be combined through time, but even this hypothesis does not prove the "emperor's involvement" as it were.

Of course, ALL Space marines are TECHNICALLY sourced from the emperor- while their gene-seed comes from the primarch (though it is worth noting that the Grey Knights did NOT have a primarch but were rather created from a "common whole"), the initial genetic material and work came from the emperor.

As to the issue of Primarchs: technically speaking we can identify no primarch for the grey knights. This is essentially down to the fact that they were not formed from a specific legion/source and were instead a composite process. While chapters (even to successor chapters of successor chapters) often honor the "Primarch", this is due to their SINGLE heritage- the Consuls, for example, honor guilliman as their primarch because they are descended from the Ultramarines. Despite the additional steps they have a common, single, point of origin.

By comparison, the grey knights were formed, as evidences by the fluff (almost regardless of incarnation), from multiple sources- in this case loyal marines from the traitor legions AND space marines from the loyalist legions. One assumes, then, that the gene-seed was combined in some way (possibly through a generational cycle) as to form a "single cohesive" form of gene-seed that we might consider "Grey Knights Gene-Seed." As to the association with the emperor (and specifically 'his' gene-seed), it is unclear but we can safely assume it is not the case.

[blackchalice]

Have you read Garro i do believe he might have something to do with the grey knights.

[Hyperion]

In the Emeperors Gift the autor states several times that the Grey Knighs gene seed is from the Emperor hence the term the emperors gift.

Gery Knights are taken from Pyskers culled from the Black Ships and implaned with the emperors gene seed on Titan after they are mind wiped and then are trained and get assigned to a squad.

[Emperors_mercy]

I have been out of the hobby for a number of years now (no GW shops in mainland China) but I've heard some awful stories about "Khornate Knights" and Grey Knights using chaos tainted artifacts.

Can anyone bring me up to speed?

[80Maxwell08]

Well it's a bit off topic but for Khornate Knights here's a link to explain that.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Khornate_Knights
As for the tainted artifacts I only know about some people's frustations about Inquisitors of the Ordo Malleus being able to use things like Daemonblades. There is Crowe who wields a sword possessed by a daemon but his purpose wielding it is to make sure no one else gets it so basically it's just a random sword when he uses it.