PDA

View Full Version : Self made Daemons



mastershaper
14-12-2009, 06:44 AM
So i thought i would start off and christen this board with a daemons topic :devil:

This is supposed to be a conversation/debate so no flaming please

Daemons are quiet easily one of the best armies around at the moment, and there easyness to play well with as earned them fans and opposition

For a standardised list i would say no kairos as he is far to powerful for what we are trying to achieve here

Facts of the matter for 2000pts
Should we take a greater daemon?
How much do we mix and match gods?
And What Core units?

After that you can start to flesh out and develop he army but those are its base fundermentals

P.S For this topic we should stay away from mono god armies

So whats everyones opinions?

Satanaka
26-12-2009, 11:32 AM
So i thought i would start off and christen this board with a daemons topic :devil:

This is supposed to be a conversation/debate so no flaming please

Daemons are quiet easily one of the best armies around at the moment, and there easyness to play well with as earned them fans and opposition

For a standardised list i would say no kairos as he is far to powerful for what we are trying to achieve here

Facts of the matter for 2000pts
Should we take a greater daemon?
How much do we mix and match gods?
And What Core units?

After that you can start to flesh out and develop he army but those are its base fundermentals

P.S For this topic we should stay away from mono god armies

So whats everyones opinions?

On a personal note, I'd say no to Kairos PERIOD in anything under 3K.

Ok so 2K huh? Let's get cracking.

Unfortunately, there is no one single "all comers" list for daemons.

Lords and Heros

For the greater daemon, I'd say either start with a Bloodthirster or a LoC, depending on what you want to accomplish. If you need a unit wrecker or hero killer, take the Thirster. If you need to be magic heavy, then the LoC is right choice. A good compromise between the two is the KoS.

Note, that the best unit killer Thirster combo I've found is Dark Insanity (Has 2d6+2 attacks instead of normal stat line. Roll every turn.), Immortal Fury( Re-roll all failed to hit in CC), and Armor of Khorne (3+ armor).

The best character killer Thrister I've found bears the Obsidian Armor (3+ Armor, Contact with Daemon makes Enemy Magic weapon abilities not work), Axe of Khorne (grants KB in CC), and the aforementioned Immortal Fury.

I usually always kit out my LoC with Twin Heads (+2 to cast) and Dark Magister ( ignore first miscast)

I have a fondness to load up the KoS with Soul Hunger (Re-roll failed wounds in first round), Soporific Musk (Enemy rolls +1 dice when fleeing, discards highest), and the Torment Blade (Counts as extra hand weapon, enemy must pass Ld test to strike back if wounded)

Unless you are running a mono Nurgle list, I really wouldn't suggest running the GUO. He's too slow, compared to the other powers.

Of the Heros, heralds are always good. Heralds of Khorne should always go on a Juggie, as a 0+ armor save paired with a 5+ ward is hard to argue with, and preferably have at least the Armor of Khorne, if not the Obsidian Armor. Take Soul Hunger of you elect to stick with only the Armor of Khorne. Put them with a unit of Bloodletters and now the unit gets hatred to go along with their KB.

Heralds of Tzeetch should always go in a unit of Pink Horrors and make the enemy focus on that unit by tooling him up with Spellbreaker and maybe Master of Sorcery (use Lore of metal on Brettonians and Chaos Warriors) He's a level two automatically, so that's a bonus.

The unit now has a 4+ ward save, due to the herald in the unit. Do NOT give him the disc, as then he can not join the unit. (Flying characters can not join foot slog units.)

Heralds of Slaanesh should always be mounted on a steed of Slaanesh, just for the poison attack the steed makes. HoS have ASF so the steed will usually go first except against the HE. I usually run Many Armed Monstrosity (grants +2 attacks).


Again, I really wouldn't run Nurgle unless I have absolute reason to (running a mono Nurgle list), Granted, HoN are the best heralds in the book, but the unit you need to put them in doesn't have a lot of punch. I don't bother giving them a palanquin.

As for Sc's, there's only one I'd consider taking for a "generic" list and that's the Masque. She's cheap, her powers can't be dispelled, and it has multiple effects. (She can slow down fast armies, and she can play havoc with ones with low Ld.)

A note on the BSB Banners. Any of the banners are useful, you just have to tailor to what you are trying to accomplish. My default banner is usually the Great Icon of Despair (-2 Ld within 12").

Core Units

Bloodletters are essential to winning any game and you really should take 2 units of 16 every time. Why 16? It leaves enough room for those heralds on Juggies to go. The Icon of Endless War (D6 to first charge) is useful but not really necessary. Save your points for elsewhere.

I usually also include a 10 man unit of Pink Horrors. That makes them a level 1 wizard UNIT, and that gives them Flickering Fire, one of the best spells in the game. Both the Banner of Change (3D6 S3 hits to unit in base contact) and the Icon of Sorcery (+1 To cast) are useful. I prefer the the BoC, due to Flickering fire only requires a 4+ to cast and average on two dice is 7. Easy to get off. Do not let Horrors get into combat if possible unless they flank or rear charge an already engaged unit.. They aren't great fighters. The Changling isn't useful. In fact his fighting ability is almost as bad as Kairos' is.

Daemonettes are really fragile, when compare to the Bloodletters, so I usually don't take them. The only real bonus they have is with the herald in the unit. Then they receive ASF. Give them the Banner of Ecstasy if you do take a unit of 16. You won't regret it.

Plaguebearers are iffy. They're a tarpit unit, so if you feel you'll need to hold up a unit until the bloodletters can flank charge. Again, Nurgle doesn't have a lot of punch.

Furies are only useful if you wish to march block something when your opponent doesn't have a lot of shooting. Otherwise they're about useless.

Special Units

Flesh Hounds are almost a must. However, don't bother with Karanak. 75pts. for 2 extra attacks isn't worth it. Take 5.

Screamers are fickle. Granted, they are the only unit in the game that does damage in the movement phase. However, if they are grounded and can't fly, they become a liability real quick, as they only have a normal move of 1".

Nurglings are the only Nurgle unit I'd consider taking in a "generic" list. Skirmishing scouts that cause fear is to be respected.

The one unit that has no models currently available is the best for charging gun lines and that's Seekers. Pair them up with the Siren Standard (enemy can not stand and shoot as reaction) and their normal 20" charge and that's a war machine hunting unit also. Run 5 if you have the models and have the points, instead of the Flesh Hounds.

Rare Units

Bloodcrushers are hard hitting. Unfortunately, they're also extremely expensive at 70 pts a piece. Don't bother. Save the models to use as heralds.

Flamers. Ah, the "mini gun of fantasy". Take 4 if you can. 14 shots on average is not to laughed at.

Don't bother with Beasts for the same reasons listed about just about every other Nurgle unit.

Fiends are a must have. They hit like bricks and they have 3 wounds EACH. A 20" charge doesn't hurt either.

So now what does my average list look like?

Here we go.

Lord Of Change (635 pts.)
Lord Of Change
- Level 4
- Twin Heads
- Dark Magister


Battle Standard Bearer (265)
Herald of Khorne
- BSB
- Great Icon Of Despair
- Armor of Khorne
- Juggernaut

Herald Of Khorne (165)
Herald Of Khorne
- Armor of Khorne
- Juggernaut of Khorne

Herald of Tzeetch (140)
Herald of Tzeentch
- Spellbreaker


Bloodletter Unit (222)
16 Bloodletters
Full Command


Bloodletter Unit (222)
16 Bloodletters
Full Command

Pink Horror Unit (175)
10 Pink Horrors
- Full Command
- Banner Of Change

Fiend Unit (165)
3 Fiends

Total Points: 1989 Pts.

mastershaper
09-01-2010, 10:39 AM
That is a nice list, but what you are about to see is that we agree on very little as our lists are at 2 opposite ends of the Daemonic View

Bloodthirster 490pts
Spellbreaker
Armour of khorne

Masque of Slaanesh 90pts

Herald of khorne 265pts
Juggernaut
Armour of khorne
BSB
Icon of despair

Herald of Slaanesh 140pts
Siren song
steed of slaanesh

10 Daemonettes 132pts
Alluress
10 Horrors 120pts
10 Horrors 120pts
5 Furies 60pts

5 Flesh hounds 175pts
5 Flesh hounds 175pts

5 Flamers 175pts
1 Fiend of Slaanesh 55pts

= 1997pts

What do you think?

I'll write up why i took each one later when i have more time

Tallarn
17-01-2010, 08:53 PM
I have edited the points cost of individual items out of your post, please just post total points for whole units, not points for each item they are carrying.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Tallarn

Carrelio
18-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Very interesting. And I mean realling interesting. I've been meaning to try out daemons for a little while now. From what I've seen, blood letters make an excellent core choice (and a damn good troop choice in 40K). I've heard alot of good things about Slannesh's keeper of secrets too, any truth to those rumours?

Satanaka
19-01-2010, 06:13 PM
Very interesting. And I mean realling interesting. I've been meaning to try out daemons for a little while now. From what I've seen, blood letters make an excellent core choice (and a damn good troop choice in 40K). I've heard alot of good things about Slannesh's keeper of secrets too, any truth to those rumours?

Yes, The KoS is a good Daemon. He's the 2nd best fighter of the bunch, and the 2nd best Wizard IMO.

Inquisitor023
19-01-2010, 07:19 PM
The first being?...

suicidal0
19-01-2010, 07:24 PM
bloodthirster being the best fighter and the LoC is the best spellcaster

Satanaka
20-01-2010, 02:52 PM
That is a nice list, but what you are about to see is that we agree on very little as our lists are at 2 opposite ends of the Daemonic View

Bloodthirster 490pts
Spellbreaker
Armour of khorne

Masque of Slaanesh 90pts

Herald of khorne 265pts
Juggernaut
Armour of khorne
BSB
Icon of despair

Herald of Slaanesh 140pts
Siren song
steed of slaanesh

10 Daemonettes 132pts
Alluress
10 Horrors 120pts
10 Horrors 120pts
5 Furies 60pts

5 Flesh hounds 175pts
5 Flesh hounds 175pts

5 Flamers 175pts
1 Fiend of Slaanesh 55pts

= 1997pts

What do you think?

I'll write up why i took each one later when i have more time

Good list, but I think it's a bit light on Combat Res, IMO.

Satanaka
20-01-2010, 02:53 PM
bloodthirster being the best fighter and the LoC is the best spellcaster

Exactly.