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Samick
03-04-2009, 12:34 AM
Well I'd just like to say hey to everyone on this forum as this is my first post!

And now for business. I'm very new to ogres and need help formulating a list. Here's what I thought up:


Lord:

Tyrant: 311
(HA, Tenderizer, Gut Maw, Wyrdstone necklace, luck gnoblar)

Heroes:

Bruiser: 209
(BSB, HA, x3 gnoblar thiefstones, luck gnoblar)

Butcher #1: 180
(Bangstick, Dispel scroll)

Butcher #2: 180
(siegebreaker, skullmantle)

Core:

x3 naked bulls: 115 <#1>
(bellower)

x4 Ironguts: 222 <Tyrant and Bruiser here>
(bellower, standard bearer)

x3 Ironguts: 154 <butcher #2>
(bellower)

x10 gnoblar trappers: 60


Special:

x3 yhetees: 195

x2 leadbelchers: 110

x2 leadbelchers: 110

Rare:

x1 gorger: 75

x1 gorger: 75

total: 1996

So what do you guys think? Be brutal, I want to dominate as much as ogres can.

Carrelio
03-04-2009, 12:42 AM
I would be inclined to sujest atleast 1 more unit of gnoblars, alot of strategies revolve around those cheap little units that you can basically throw away and waste an enemies turn. In that turn, while your enemy is bogged down in angry little big nosed migits, you can easily get a flank attack ready, or what have you. With only 1 unit you'll be a little hard pressed to use them effectively (especially in 2000 points) but with a couple, you should be able to be very very annoying.

Samick
03-04-2009, 12:58 AM
Wow! Thanks for the ridiculously quick response. I could probably drop off a gut from my tyrants unit and pick up a unit of 25 gnoblars. That would give me a much needed extra unit to field in this small army of mine :)

Carrelio
03-04-2009, 01:56 AM
I was just in the right place at the right time :P Sounds like a good plan.

Samick
03-04-2009, 02:24 AM
hmmm, with a nice unit of gnoblars in the picture now, I'm tempted to give my Tyrants unit the rune maw banner and redoing my bruisers items. But hmmmm, where to come up with the extra points?

SquallEvoker
03-04-2009, 04:54 AM
First, your bruiser can't have any magic items or big names because he has the BSB. Even if he doesn't take a magic banner, he's still subject to the restriction. For less points than the thief stones, you can give him Rune Maw, and fling the spell onto a unit of gnoblars. Now...

Tyrant: He's big, he's mean, and he's holding a big club. For five measly points more, he could be ignoring armor saves and hitting with a personal stone thrower. Yeah, D3 wounds per wound is great, but that's only useful vs big scary things (like other ogres) and characters. Otherwise, a regular great weapon will work. If you need a REAL character killer, Thundermace swings once for S8 and D6 wounds, with no armor saves. 4+, 2+, squish. That, and it gives you the option of killing many more smaller things in combat.

I know you want a character killer, but most people are smart enough to steer clear of a unit with great weapons, a BSB, a TYRANT, and enough wallop to level the most stubborn unit of dwarfs. I have tried making one deadly kill unit, and my opponent specifically avoids it, leaving it out of combat usually until turn 4 or 5. My suggestion is split the bruiser and tyrant. Make it a 1 - 2 punch. Keep them staggered, so if one is charged, the other charges next round, or if one charges, the other can try to flank or such.

If you add a unit of 3 maneaters, you'll be surprised how nice a stubborn unit can be. Give them all a great weapon for a unit of better ironguts, and field the tyrant with them. Then toss the bruiser with the real guts, and there's your 1 - 2 punch.

For your magic, I find that butchers aren't great unless you really step up their power. Two tooth gnoblars is essential. Toss them both at a spell, then roll two dice. It goes off, unless your opponent throw a guaranteed three dice at it, maybe four. That, and Hellheart is TOO damn good. If your foe uses more than two dice a spell, he will fail over half the time. It'll force him to either chance using two dice for 8-9+ spells, and risk failing them, or stick to casting low cost spells that really aren't that threatening. Skullmantle goes well with a power stone for an unexpected brain gobbler after your opponent thinks you're out of dice.

A naked unit of bulls is a waste of points. That's 115 points of list just thrown to the wind. Spend some points to give them a 4+ save and an extra bull, and watch their effectiveness rise. Even with a butcher, you're just asking for him to get overrun. As far as two units of ironguts goes, drop one and add those maneaters.

For special choices... hmmm... Yhetees are a great unit, but watch out for goblin fanatics and such. They move faster, so they usually pop them. If you want a good flanker, yhetees do help, but ogres are all fast as it is. the only high point to yhetees is their 3D6 pursuit, which is negligible. I'd suggest, since you'll have two units of gnoblars, to remove the yhetees and a unit of leadbelchers, and add two scraplaunchers. A pie-plate of killing blow is amazing. Two shots, one after the other can cause serious panic, and fielded close together near the general (so they won't go running off at whim. Ld 5 sucks) they can shoot the same thing twice. And charge the same thing twice. Etc.

With Gorgers.... they're nice for 75 points, but situational. They can't negate rank bonus, nor can they really handle a unit in combat on their own. I find them great line of retreat obstructers, lone character hunters, and great for tying down otherwise deadly flankers. That's about all that they're good for.

So there's my suggestions on your list. Alter it how you wish, I can't say you'll have the points for all of the changes, but that's my opinion. As for thief stones, the spell Trollguts gives magic resist 2. What more do you need?

Samick
03-04-2009, 01:29 PM
Hmmm, I'm going to have to pull the book out on this one, as one page 69 it says;

" the battle standard bearer cannot choose any extra weapons, nor can he use an ironfist. If the bruiser is carrying the army battle standard, he can have any magic banner, but he cannot carry any other magic item nor can he have any big names. "

So doesn't that just mean he can't have magic weapons but he can still have items, (like the thiefstones) if he isn't carrying a magic banner?

And as for splitting up the bruiser and tyrant, I had my setup like that at first, but then the runemaw of thiefstones isn't protecting my tyrant, which is what I really want it for.

Maneaters look awesome, but I'm not sure where I would pull the points from. At 80 points a piece base, taking my yhetees out would only allow 2 of these guys. I could take a unit of IG out and equip my BSB with the Runemaw and take out teh standrad bearer in the remaining IG unit and afford 3, but oh those gorgers look fun and my main opponents are going to be woodelves (curse those shooty little buggers), chaos, and darkelves (again with the shooting :mad:). I feel that giving my ogres a turn or 2 to move up while the opponent is distracted will be vital ,especially with the elves. And if I can tie up warmachines and shooting units, even better. But I have yet to try them out yet, and one may be enough. I just wish all of these freakin' models weren't metal and cost so much. Curse you Games Workshop!!!!

The thundermace is most definitely something I want to look into though. It seems a but unreliable, but hey when it does succeed it looks like it could tear through almost anything.

Thanks for all the input! I've got a lot of thinking to do now. I've got to calculate my budget and see how much stuff I can buy and test run.

If only I could run a skrag list then all of my problems would be solved. But alas, I don't think my gaming buddies will allow special characters.

SquallEvoker
03-04-2009, 04:08 PM
Ahhh.... so you fight wood elves.... I play them, so..... hmmm....

Against wood elves, you're going to want the rag banner in one unit, as there's a lot of panic causing things in their list. Also, if you can make a line of ogres that covers your whole front line, then better for you. Try to predict their flanking attempts. As long as you keep pressing forward and keeping your units rallied, you'll be fine. The elves are all high cost units, so just take out big threats like treemen with heavy hitters, and let the rest of your army munch them. A scraplauncher will be very helpful here. Since the units are smaller, you'll be killing less, but you won't need many kills to cause panic. Unfortunately, elves leadership is good, but the elves won't appreciate getting hit with S3 killing blow all the same. Even try to target characters. The killing blow along could net you the points of your scraplauncher alone. As for gorgers, two would help a lot vs elves. Place them in fall back lines so the buggers can just charge reaction: flee on you. That'll be your best option.

Against chaos, I don't have much to say. I've never fought them, and I don't know whether you're up against beasts, warriors, or daemons, so I'll just give you one tip. Butcher with skullmantle and power stone in a unit with a character who has the brahmir statue. -4 Ld panic tests hurt like hell.

Dark elves.... I have an acquaintance who plays them. His main is Skaven, so that's all I've been able to fight. Against dark elves, take the greedy fist, and anything that can hurt magical weapons. Their armory is ridiculous. I think they have an armor that gives regeneration for some measly point cost like 35 or something. I don't know exactly, but it's dirt cheap and bloody amazing. Against them, I can't give much else for advice. Chage them, don't let them strike first, challenge always, and kill their character before he can swing back. Not much for advice, because that's the idea every game, but....

Anyway, hope this is useful. I've been playing ogres now for two of three years, and I've found that the army plays better the closer you follow their fluff. "Big wall of meat go smashy smash on littler things."

Samick
03-04-2009, 04:34 PM
Ok, so I have thought up a few ideas and here they are. So If I drop a gut from the tryrants unit and get 20 gnoblar fighters, that leaves me with 12 extra points. I drop the trapper unit down to 8, giving me 24 extra points. I equip my tyrants unit standard with the rune maw. I revamp my bruiser and give him sword of striking and greedy fist. I put the seigebreaker butcher in my tyrants unit, and put my bruiser with the other guts unit. That way my two good fighters are split up and I have a decent fighter and a good buffer with my tyrant. The skullmantle will also help in combat. These changes will put me at 2001 points ='(. I hope my opponents won't mind. And if I want to try out the thundermace, I can just switch the greedyfist on my bruiser to a gnoblar thiefstone to make room for the 5 point increase.

And if I see that the leadbelchers aren't performing ideally, I'll take them out for a scrap launcher, leaving me with 50 extra points for tooth gnoblars and maybe some more trappers/fighters.

Thanks for all the help by the way everyone.

Oh and P.S.

It's chaos mortals I fight

Samick
15-04-2009, 03:33 AM
Well, I've pretty much revamped my whole view on ogres and want to cheese them out as much as possible (thanks to my recent O+G crappyness). Ogres don't have too much cheese but from what I hear Skrag and his gorgers can put up uite a fight. So I was thinking of running Skrag, 2-3 butchers, 1 unit of bulls, maybe 2 units of Iron Guts, 4-6 Gorgersm 2-3 maneaters, and use the rest of the points for gnoblars. So frown upon me all you want, but what are your guys opinions on Ogre Cheeseyness?

SquallEvoker
15-04-2009, 05:26 AM
Ogres can't cheese. Dwarves can, Daemons can, but Ogres? I have to make a new list for each army I face almost.

Eodred
15-04-2009, 05:52 AM
Dwarfs can cheese?

An example please?

E

Samick
16-04-2009, 01:43 AM
Well, Dwarf gunlines can be considered cheesy. And I know Ogres don't have "cheese" but I was just asking with no constrictions on troops (i.e. a lot of people frowwn upon special characters but I don't discriminate) is a gorger heavy skrag list with maneaters to escort skrag a list seen as being even relitively competative? Or even just more so than a tyrant list...

SquallEvoker
17-04-2009, 10:22 AM
Gorgers are support units. Nothing more. Even with Skrag, they don't change too much. Is it a fun list to toy around with? Absolutely. Is it competitive? Not really. If you have a special character, then your opponent most likely has one too. Many special characters around Skrag's point level would eviscerate him. Skrag is great with the help of gorgers, but you'd have to really play a lot with gorgers and understand exactly when and where they're best and such. An army based on support doesn't fair well usually. Unless it's a dwarven gun line. I hate those stumpy little ****s SO much.

Rider
17-04-2009, 11:02 PM
Empire gunlines are just as bad, Squall... Well, just as bad to get to. Quite a lot easier to squish :D.

My favourite tactic is to use the ogres as you would a sledgehammer... with Chainsaws on it. A sledgehammer made of oversized, grunting ogres with large weapons. Lead by a maximum offense Tyrant, full of bulls and Ironguts... and hit them with it until either they stop living, or you do. Its fun, too. Squishing hero level Empire characters with a great weapon armed Irongut Gutlord... heh heh heh.

Saint of M
18-04-2009, 03:59 AM
This is going to take forever to wright as I'm busy watching my neice and my mom is having me get stuff while she's watching her.

AS a Dark elf player, I'll go overr some of the units that will pose a problem from core to special hereos (at least the ones you'll probably find in a 2000 point game.

Army rule: Eternal Hatred: THey hate everything, including them selves, so they will get to rerole the first faild role to hit in closecombat. The dissadvantage is that they are then forcedto persue fleeing enemies, even if it would lead them into a trap.

You'll probably se alot of spearmen ass they are the cheapest unit, and you will see a full comand as its 10 points cheaper then the average unit. They probably won't do too much damage, especialy if you have a gut plate of ironfist, but will deffinitly outrank and outnumber you.

Crossbowmen are the next unit to worry about. Their unit upgrades are the same ass everyone else except for their champion, the gaurdmaster (who now has a better BS instead of the +2 attacks) who is the same price of the average musician. But their main problem will be their weapon of choice: The Repeater Crosssbow. Its a strength three weapon, but it can shoot out 2 armor peircing shots a turn, and the unit can move and shoot at the same time. THis takes out the advantate of having the Light armor.

Corsairs are just a decent offensive unit that can take a standard that makes them frenzied.

Harpies are no real threat, but they are cheep for an elf unit, and will be used as march blockers.

Dark riders will be the worst of the core troops though. Given as I dought anyone will take away their fast cave rule and give them sheilds, they are going to come at you with repeaters. The crossbows, and all of their nifty fast cave rules (feined retreat, march and shoot, free reform.) SO, they will be harrassing you alot.

Specials will include:

the black gaurd (who are no longer limited to one per army) which have halburds, imunity from psycology, 2 attacks standard, and can rerole failed roles to wound. Their cahmpions can take 25ponts of magic items, and if they take the special unit champion of Kuron they are unbreakable, and have a champion with a S6 halburd that can't be modified who wears armor that forses you to take a toughness check (ypu'll probably pass) inorder to wound him.

Executioners are Strength four with greapt weapons. THeir killing blow will only work against your knoblar troops, but the strength six attacks you'll go up against will hurt you lots.

Add tullaris, the special unit champion, he gives the unit fear and weilds a great weapon the reroles failed roles to wound. Add the fact if he kills you in a challenge, his unit gets +D3 points to combat res.

Witch Elves Are frenzied so your fear will not work. They aksoi have poisoned attacks, so they onky need to role a 6 on the hit role to do dammage. They can take up to 25 points of the temple of khaine magic items for the hag (champion) which includes witch brew which negates enemy ranks, outnumber, and flank and rear charge bonuses (this affects the whole unit with even if the hag eventualy dies sometime in the game; manbane makes the users base strength 1+ the enemy's toughness up to strength 6 (user only, not the whole unit)

Cold One knights come with Strenght four, lanses, and a mouint that causes fear, is stupid, and has strenght four attacks. THeir champions can also take special weapons.

Cold one charitos have spears, strenght four charioteers, repeater crosbows, and D6 Strenght 6 impact hits.

Just hope the units go stupid.

Spearmen, Executioners, and witch elves can take up to 25 points of magic standards. If I had to guess, your dark elf apponent might want to bring out the coldblodded standard which for the for one tome, can have you rerole a failed psycology test. THe next item is the banner of murder which gives the unit armor peircing. That said, witchelves will probably not worry too much about your armor saves if thy have it, and the two ranks of spoearmen that can attack might actualy down an ogre or two. Execuioners its rather redundent to say as this banner would make them knight killers.

Cold oNe knights will can go up to 50 points, so it opens them up t a Alays Strikes first banner, a banner that gives them +D3 to the battle rez on the turn they charge.

Black Gaurd have up to 75points of for magic standards, and thus can take all the above mentioned, one that causes fear, and another that gives everything (and I mean everything) in that unit +1 attack.

Shades have scout and skirmish rules. They autamaticly have repeater crossbows. THey also have some really good weapon skill and Balistic skill, with the champion having +1 to the BS and attack. They can also be equiped with great weapons, making them strenght 5.

For rare

THe reaper Bolt Threower can either do the single shot, or the 6 Strenght 4 hits alocated on the unit of choice, going through 2 layers of armor. EIther or, they have a range of 48 inches which is almost the length of the playing feild.

Have the gorgers take them out as they can spelll desaster and two can be taken for one unit choice

Hydras will be the first terror unit you'l have to fear as they have good armor, high toughness, and regen. Their andlers have 3 armor peircing attacks. They also cause terror so this may oose a problem for some of your units (some because Tyrants are creature killers in and of them selves.)

SOrseressess are absalutly deadly in this game, using lore of shadow, fire, metal, death, and their own dark magic which is almost all offensive and can deal some seriouse dammage. Regulare sorrseresess can ride dark pegasuses which have +1 S on the charge nad flying.

If you see a high sorcerwess, it means he'll be doing a magic heavy army and you will feal the pain.

Assassins have been upgraded to the fully fledged killing machins they should be. You can tool them up to be monster killers or chareecker killers, including several items that do multiple wounds. THe fact you take one for every infintry unit (except harpies) and outsuide two magic items, multiple of the temple items can be used by different people, not fun.Add the fact they can hide in the said infantry units untill needed, and come with ASF and poison attacks make em deadlyer

Death hags are uber powerful closecombat types, only lacking armor. But you can take one give it witch brew, Rune of Khaine (+D3 attacks a turn) and give her the magic standard that has ASF and in a unit of executionser, and you have perfection.

I doubt peaple will spend the points for a dragon in this size of a game. Manticors on the other hand, yes. This sometimes frenzied fighting machine can spell doom for you.

Magic items: THe dark elves don't have alot of defensive stuff, but oooh man are the weapons cheaper. Most of the items in the common section are 5 to 20 points cheaper, with plenty of of other stuff that can kill you. Of these, you have the Executioner's ax. The most expensive item, it strike last and requires two hands, butalways wounds at strenth double the target's toughness (in your case that means its strenth 8. Fortunitly the coast of it eats up most of the lord's magit item points, and it has to go with an infantry modle (no chariots or otherwise mounted modle.)

THe next is the chill blade. This will eat up a hero level charecter's points up, but it auto hits and if the target has an unsaved wound he'll have to pass a toughness test or not fight that turn.

Potion of strength is a one use only item, but it ups the user's strength by 3, making the avearage master strength 7 for a turn.

Heateaker is a lance that always reroles failed roles to hit or wound.

Life taker is a repeater crossbow with a 3x shot, 30 inch range (not sure what the metric equation is, Americans havn't gotten with the program yet) and Strenth 4. Fortunitly it isn't armor peircing as the S4 dose that for you. It also dosn't count as magical attacks for some odd reason.

Sheild of Grou nd makes all succsevve hits against the user -1 strenght if they can be modified.

They also have a average coasting item that grants the unit imunity to psyc, and an item like your theirfstones which give magic resistance.

All of but 2 of the army specific arcane items are there to gain more power dice, but they help the sorceress with the casting none the less (one adds a spell, the other gives the wizzard another 6 inches to work with.)

Heros and lords you might see: I Don't see Lokir in this one unless someone is counting on his terror/regen mask to aid him. THis is mostly because where he shines is with hoard armies, and ogres are anything BUT.

You might see malus because if he lets his demon takeover, he becomes tougher and stronger, S5, T5, A 5. His mount is not stuoid and if he joins a unit of COld one knights, neither are they.

Samick
19-04-2009, 04:29 AM
Holy crap man thanks for that super intensely detailed breakdown of Dark Elves! This is very valuable information, all of which I will have to take inot account when my DE friend finally gets up to 2000 points. I really appreciate this.